diabetes Agent Orange Question(S)

[CCC]

Hey, all. Not new here, but can't remember my log-in information, so I am ashamedly starting over. :)

I have a question or two related to Agent Orange exposure, disability, etc. If there's a place where I can read up on it, please direct me so I don't have to waste anyone's time, but y'all have been so helpful before.

OK, my husband is disabled. His paperwork says 50% but he's rated at 60%. I don't understand how that works, but he said it's a VA thing, and not supposed to make sense.

Reading here, and online, we got a little information regarding his exposure. He was never in Vietnam, but was Vietnam era. He was working at several Army bases as an MP, where AO was sprayed as a defoliant. Many of those Army bases are now considered "superfund" sites by the EPA because of the toxicity levels.

He has heart disease, type 2 diabetes, emphysema and a myriad of other conditions. The only one, at this time, considered service connected, is his heart. He had a heart attack when he was stationed in California, and this was about 10 years after his exposure to AO. This is all in his records, and he has no history of heart disease, himself or family.

We got notification yesterday of other documents needed, such as proving how AO resulted in heart disease, etc. I was wondering if anyone had any idea of how I would go about doing that? I'm not sure what my next step should be.

We are a little confused on how we are supposed to proceed. There were no tests done on him while he was in the military for anything - he said in the entire 20 years he was in the military, never once does he remember his finger being pricked or being checked for sugar. He remembers being in Ft. Carson, CO, and they were going to have to ship him to another base because he was having so much trouble breathing - he couldn't acclimate to the higher climate.

He was stationed at 5 different sites which are now considered EPA superfund sites, and especially remembers AO being sprayed along the fenceline, regularly, at Seneca Army Depot, also a superfund site. He said they sprayed it regularly, because it was a nuke depot, and they had to keep the weeds away from the fenceline.

Anyway, any help would be appreciated on how to proceed.

Thanks in advance. :)

[Bigred122]

Mike,

He said that most of the rumors about Seneca are true. He still doesn't feel comfortable about saying what he guarded, but he did say that they were extremely high security, and there was nothing at all along the fenceline, because of the nature of what he was guarding. Said that the fencelines had to be completely clear to make sure that no one was able to get over and get inside the area that they were guarding.

He said the guys used to use ATVs to drive around the fenceline and spray, and they watched them do it. Even was told by one of the sprayers that it was AO.

I would start with that location first if hubby feels it was the most likely to be where it was at.I don't know who was in charge of spraying when he was in (what maintenance company) but I would find out who first, then how often did they spray and get copies of duty roster showing spraying and then compare his company duty rosters on the days that intersect and go from there.The only reason I was spraying weeds was because I was under house arrest and had 4 guards with me 24/7. So I had a ready made work crew for their pleasure. Our Divison changed Generals in charge so that was a big deal that was in all duty rosters.That and Congress gave them 6 million to make the Camp Purttttty! Old General got mad when he saw that I was on the Honor Guard for the New General. ( I was trouble, but I always looked sharp!! Clothes always tailored, boot had a High Gloss shine and marched to perfection!!)lol

The High security locations would have the best records and nothing grows where they have sprayed AO. ATVs weren't invented yet when I was in. Still had jeeps, no hummers. We had tanks in back of jeep and 50/100 feet of spray hose.They never even gave us masks. Focus on one or two areas, find out who was in charge of keeping areas free of weeds and go from there.Any symptoms while in the service? I would check duty stations before those appeared.I had a rash appear after guard duty in Georgia and stayed in hospital for a week with mystery illness after spraying in Korea.I had never thought I was exposed to AO until VA kept asking me questions about it. So when I started researching AO I found I had been exposed to it several times without knowing it. Always wonder why I had health problems that no one in family ever had.I think the VA always knew, I just had to dance to their tune until the music stopped. Good luck and keep the Faith! mike

[Capt.]

Hello ,CCC, Mike, BigRed, Boomer,

I would like to bring up my earlier post to this and maybe add some other information.

When Congressman Lane Evans put forth his initial work to get post and bases , areas, not listed on the Agent Orange list from DOD , he simply ran out of time. Hence all we have is what you see posted on the VA sites of Herbicidal useage. There are still many sites inlcuding Fort Greely which did not make it to the site. James Cripps being at Fort Gordon and the needed information of showing documentation that Agent Orange was in fact there made his claim more winable in court. It was still a huge task for him and he did not win under PRESUMPTIVE , but under DIRECT exposure.

I would also like to bring up that in this threads early posting the 2 forms that the DOD and the Army have to use to apply any herbicides or dangerous chemicals to any military base or installation. These are mandatory forms. NOW HERE IS THE PROBLEM.....

You can FOIA the information you want and specifically list these reports and the dates you are searching for. However the DOD is NOT going to allow release of these forms. If you succeed in this FOIA , it will be a first and as far as I know of not one instance where someone has gotten their hands on these reports from any location period has succeeded.

I have posted here at Hadit and it is in this thread. the Heribicide Training seminar from 1973 showing EXAMPLES of how the report is to be filled out and even the persons that had to attend the mandatory training in that year from the depots , bases located in the United States. This form is archived in Hadit.com and I even just recently broke down the location by numbers according to the report to help others with their search. Now this is certainly enough evidence to use to help in your claim and I would use it but the actual records are still not going to be released. You will have to use other avenues and dept., agencies to show useage or contamination of those areas in question. The Backdoor approach.

Much like I did with researching the Corps of Engineers reports, The Alaska Dept. of Environmental Conservation, BRAC, ATSDR, EPA, different contract Engineering groups, and several agencies that supplied irrefutable information that showed Agent Orange was at Fort Greely and used extensively until it was banned in 1975. I have even posted the Installation and Assessment Report of Gerstle River Test Site , Dec 1976, showing the number of gallons sprayed and what was sprayed , as well as VX and Sarin gas testing.

It will take you many , many hours of researching , and documentation to close the loop. You must show the chemicals were there. That you were exposed to them, and then the connecting of the chemicals and your disease or diseases with a solid IMO if not 2 of them linking them to your disease. It must be in the proper wording to trigger the CFR 38.102 Benefit of a Doubt rule.

We can talk about this person said he saw someone spraying it and this person , and this person remembers he saw barrels on the tarmack and so forth , but it will not do you any good at all unless you have reports from the agencies I have listed showing the contamination. You just about have to use the backdoor approach and find out like I did that many agencies are trying to monitor the contamination and cleanup or remediate those sites. This is the hard evidence needed to prove it was there. Linking that to your exposure is what has to be done and your doctor IMO will be the only way to win in court.

I am going out on a limb and say that almost every single claim for exposure to Agent Orange in a Direct exposure issue WILL NOT BE DECIDED IN A REGIONAL OFFICE. It will have to be awarded at a BVA or even higher court. James Cripps and I have talked at great lengths about this issue and he will agree with my statement.

I would also like to point you to the fact that Agent Orange can remain latent for many , many years. So this is a mute point that you have to be their while it was sprayed. You can research this and find much on this subject, including Dr. Arnold Schectters research on it. He also helped James with his claim and I too have used this research.

I would like to add that though I have 5 different doctors that have opined on my illnesses and the resultive Nexuses that have included Agent Orange, I still believe that I will have a tough battle winning it because of DODs stance on herbicide exposure. Please understand that I got sick in 1997, started seeing the VA in 2001 , was finally diagnosed after several misdiagnoses. It was in 2005 with the correct diagnosis and that I had enough research to start and follow thru, culminating in initial claims being filed in 2007.Then with denials on everything and led to me starting the appeals process in 2009. I am still waiting for a decision, good or bad so that we can get it to the BVA.

That is why I always close all of my post with NEVER GIVE UP...... It is going to take strength , help from others ,ESPECIALLY HERE AT HADIT, God's grace and either a very good lawyer or a superb VSO to make it fly. I could not have done any of this with the help here with my brothers and sisters at Hadit.com

Chemical Exposures are wicked , and deadly , but so is the DOD and the VA when it comes to adjudicating a claim with them. If you can perform the research and have the medical to back you up then you have , I feel better than a 50/50 chance of succeeding . Please hang in there look over carefully what I have posted and use it to your research and remember.......NEVER GIVE UP. God Bless, C.C.

Edited January 17, 2012 by Capt.Contaminate

[john999]

I was in areas in Vietnam that were very heavily sprayed with AO, but I do not think I could prove direct exposure. Proving these chemical exposures is hard and the DOD and VA are not breaking their butts to make it easier.

[Bigred122]

Hello ,CCC, Mike, BigRed, Boomer,

I would like to bring up my earlier post to this and maybe add some other information.

When Congressman Lane Evans put forth his initial work to get post and bases , areas, not listed on the Agent Orange list from DOD , he simply ran out of time. Hence all we have is what you see posted on the VA sites of Herbicidal useage. There are still many sites inlcuding Fort Greely which did not make it to the site. James Cripps being at Fort Gordon and the needed information of showing documentation that Agent Orange was in fact there made his claim more winable in court. It was still a huge task for him and he did not win under PRESUMPTIVE , but under DIRECT exposure.

I would also like to bring up that in this threads early posting the 2 forms that the DOD and the Army have to use to apply any herbicides or dangerous chemicals to any military base or installation. These are mandatory forms. NOW HERE IS THE PROBLEM.....

You can FOIA the information you want and specifically list these reports and the dates you are searching for. However the DOD is NOT going to allow release of these forms. If you succeed in this FOIA , it will be a first and as far as I know of not one instance where someone has gotten their hands on these reports from any location period has succeeded.

I have posted here at Hadit and it is in this thread. the Heribicide Training seminar from 1973 showing EXAMPLES of how the report is to be filled out and even the persons that had to attend the mandatory training in that year from the depots , bases located in the United States. This form is archived in Hadit.com and I even just recently broke down the location by numbers according to the report to help others with their search. Now this is certainly enough evidence to use to help in your claim and I would use it but the actual records are still not going to be released. You will have to use other avenues and dept., agencies to show useage or contamination of those areas in question. The Backdoor approach.

Much like I did with researching the Corps of Engineers reports, The Alaska Dept. of Environmental Conservation, BRAC, ATSDR, EPA, different contract Engineering groups, and several agencies that supplied irrefutable information that showed Agent Orange was at Fort Greely and used extensively until it was banned in 1975. I have even posted the Installation and Assessment Report of Gerstle River Test Site , Dec 1976, showing the number of gallons sprayed and what was sprayed , as well as VX and Sarin gas testing.

It will take you many , many hours of researching , and documentation to close the loop. You must show the chemicals were there. That you were exposed to them, and then the connecting of the chemicals and your disease or diseases with a solid IMO if not 2 of them linking them to your disease. It must be in the proper wording to trigger the CFR 38.102 Benefit of a Doubt rule.

We can talk about this person said he saw someone spraying it and this person , and this person remembers he saw barrels on the tarmack and so forth , but it will not do you any good at all unless you have reports from the agencies I have listed showing the contamination. You just about have to use the backdoor approach and find out like I did that many agencies are trying to monitor the contamination and cleanup or remediate those sites. This is the hard evidence needed to prove it was there. Linking that to your exposure is what has to be done and your doctor IMO will be the only way to win in court.

I am going out on a limb and say that almost every single claim for exposure to Agent Orange in a Direct exposure issue WILL NOT BE DECIDED IN A REGIONAL OFFICE. It will have to be awarded at a BVA or even higher court. James Cripps and I have talked at great lengths about this issue and he will agree with my statement.

I would also like to point you to the fact that Agent Orange can remain latent for many , many years. So this is a mute point that you have to be their while it was sprayed. You can research this and find much on this subject, including Dr. Arnold Schectters research on it. He also helped James with his claim and I too have used this research.

I would like to add that though I have 5 different doctors that have opined on my illnesses and the resultive Nexuses that have included Agent Orange, I still believe that I will have a tough battle winning it because of DODs stance on herbicide exposure. Please understand that I got sick in 1997, started seeing the VA in 2001 , was finally diagnosed after several misdiagnoses. It was in 2005 with the correct diagnosis and that I had enough research to start and follow thru, culminating in initial claims being filed in 2007.Then with denials on everything and led to me starting the appeals process in 2009. I am still waiting for a decision, good or bad so that we can get it to the BVA.

That is why I always close all of my post with NEVER GIVE UP...... It is going to take strength , help from others ,ESPECIALLY HERE AT HADIT, God's grace and either a very good lawyer or a superb VSO to make it fly. I could not have done any of this with the help here with my brothers and sisters at Hadit.com

Chemical Exposures are wicked , and deadly , but so is the DOD and the VA when it comes to adjudicating a claim with them. If you can perform the research and have the medical to back you up then you have , I feel better than a 50/50 chance of succeeding . Please hang in there look over carefully what I have posted and use it to your research and remember.......NEVER GIVE UP. God Bless, C.C.

Capt C, Do you have this link in your packets?

C:\Users\michael\Desktop\AgentOrangeMedia\DEC - Contaminated Sites Program - Site Summary - Ft_ Greely.mht

I've been around this stuff my whole life. My Grandfathers initials are AO (Allison Orange), I use to fish at a small lake on the edge of Ft Greely from 1964-1965, Ft Gordon 1971 Guarded contaminated site before it was torn down.All buildings were there then and we kept everyone out of the area on weekends, then spent months on DMZ and surrounding areas in South Korea.Personally sprayed some type of weed killer for area beautification project paid for by Congress. I can go to any AG store and still buy 2,4,D over the counter. I have a spray license that enables me to buy HD strength at local AG stores.(Or I could up to 2001) I haven't had the need for HD since then.OTC will sterlize soil for minimum 2 years. Hopefully you don't have that link.I just checked it so its good.Mike

[Capt.]

Hello John,,, you are exactly correct and that is why Vietnam veterans have been excluded because of the PRESUMPTIVE exposure issue verses the direct exposure issue. It took along time for Congress to initiate the Agent Orange Act and to allow this into the VA as Presumptive. It effected hundreds of thousands of people that were able to "prove" the incredible harm that Agent Orange caused. Unfortunately , Mr. Lane Evans was not reelected and his efforts died out with only a partial list now on the accepted bases. Our own Kurt Priessman won his Thailand award and was responsible for getting the evidence brought forth to succeed. Now we see others from Thailand and Korea, and Fort Gordon , Ga that are also following.

It is so shallow for the VA and the DOD to use the accepted and not yet accepted list for Agent Orange. Its like saying if you are on this side of the fence then we (VA) will accept responibility but if you are on the other side of the fence ......well sorry about that....just your bad luck that you were not in my pasture.

Is there any doubt at all that Agent Orange was used in the places I listed and broke down from the report I posted on archive now at Hadit on the Spraying Seminar in 1973? The report speaks for itself.

Is there any doubt as to the use of Agent Orange at Fort Greely , Alaska. The evidence again is overwhelming yet the accepted list shows it did not show up on it. This will not allow a Presumptive claim to proceed and as almost all Veterans outside of Vietnam must show , a direct exposure issue with lots of evidence and hardened IMOs' that will trigger the 38 CFR. 3.102. Benefit of a Doubt, to even think about succeeding.

You make a good statement John and that is why the DOD and VA are not going to help. Even though we know the spraying records DO exist. They are not going to release them . Even with FOIA and congressmen and senators. It will take a whistleblower who has access to these records to leak them out. This is not a case of national security but a case of deception to keep our service men and women and their dependents from getting the benefits they earned and deserved. Its not fair but then again what is fair when you are dealing with the VA. Personally ...... the VA needs to be dismantled and start over. We have too much at stake and so do our loved ones. NEVER GIVE UP. God Bless, C.C.

[Capt.]

Hello Mike,

I tried to open the link but could not. Please try and post it again but where it will be able to open from the post here on Hadit.

It is most likely that I have all of the Alaska Dept. of Environmental Conservation (DEC) , including Fort Greely Restoration and Advisory Board information. I probably have the largest library on Fort Greely. It is incredible what all is available.

I probably fished at the same locations. Bolio , Twin, Big Lake,,,, and ran around Blueberry , Black Rapids , Trident Glacier, Molybedium Ridge, Delta Range, Texas Range, Gerstle , Little Delta Creek, Washington Range, Oklahoma Range ,,,just for a few. Why it would not surprise me that our foot prints might be in yours and yours in mine as we trudged thru those wilderness trails. Quite contaminated I might add alo.

I have posted quite a bit on the site about this place called Fort Greely and concerning the other agencies reports.

Again if you can repost your link directly where it will open on the page it may help and I can tell you if I have it or not.

There is not alot of us left from Fort Greely and especially from the 60's and 70's. Thank you again . NEVER GIVE UP. God Bless, C.C.

Edited January 19, 2012 by Capt.Contaminate