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A Serious Suggestion For Survivors


Berta

Question

About 20 years ago Stars and Stripes ran an article I wrote on DIC. Since then DIC has changed considerably and thinking back, the other articles I wrote for S& S always were limited to the confines of the publication and the regs at time of those articles have changed as well in many cases. The internet itself confines us by space and luckily this forum holds everything I can think of ,as to current and concise DIC information.

DIC ,like many veterans claims issues has certainly become more complex in many ways since the days I did work for S & S..

Certainly the valid spouse today, of an OIF OEF vet,who died during the war or from injuries sustained in the Iraq/Afganistan theatre will have no problems attaining DIC.

Also any spouse of a deceased veteran who had a TDIU P & T or 100% P & T SC rating in their lifetime for at least ten continuous years prior to their death will have no problem attaining DIC.

But many other DIC claims can be problematic and difficult.

And not all veteran's deaths could possibly warrant DIC under the DIC criteria.

There are many types of DIC awards.

The statements the claimant makes on the 21-534 DIC application can be critical as to what type of DIC is being claimed.

I claimed DIC on 3 valid premises on my 21-534 form. I won DIC on 2 of the three basis.

This is a factor that can never be overlooked when applying for DIC.

More than one basis for a SC death is always a good idea. If possible.

--------------------------------------

I have a strong suggestion to make at this point for any survivor who comes here with a potential for DIC or accrued benefits, or both types of awards.

Get a Service veteran's representative ASAP!

If your spouse had a claim pending at death or if they had been service connected by VA already , the best place to start is with the vet rep whose org held the spouse's POA.

For an accrued benefit claim it would be invaluable to be able to deal with the same rep who was handling the deceased veteran's pending claim. Also vet reps keep POA files that could contain info the spouse needs for the DIC claim and also a vet rep is a good back up for sending in evidence to the VA, if the rep themselves either sends it to VA for the survivor or keeps a copy of it and the proof of mailing, in their POA file, in case the VA ever questions that they never got the info.

It helps to get a one to one appointment if possible and ask the rep what documents you might need to bring with you.

The rep will not only have the lengthy 21-534 forms in their office but also the Substitution as Claimant form that they can best determine if you will need to fill out.

In cases where a survivor might meet the criteria or a wartime death pension, the DIC form will cover that if the DIC is denied. The wartime death pension amount however is limited by income but favorably altered by medical bills in some cases. Still - DIC is far better then this type of award.

Once the DIC claim is prepared, signed and filed with the VA, in most cases the VA will send the claimant a VCAA letter telling them what else they need to send to the VA.In most cases this VCAA letter can be very detailed as to what medical evidence they still need and a vet rep can advise how to obtain this evidence.

Some DIC claims will definitely require a strong Independent Medical Opinion to succeed.

This is something a survivor needs to consider carefully as IMOs can be expensive but these days they are often the only way to succeed in almost any type of VA claim.A private doctor the veteran might have dealt with might be able to prepare an IMO for free or a very small fee.It must meet the IMO criteria here at hadit, otherwise the VA will reject it.

I live in the country-more cows then people -but have access to at least 6 vet reps within 25 miles,not including the part time VSO at the Bath NY VAMC .

It is easier to find a vet rep then sometimes vets and widows know.

Every state has via their state web pages, links to either their state veteran's commissions, or divisions, or to their county veteran's service agencies, all geared to helping vets and their dependents with their VA claims.

They also have listings or it can be googled easily as to the Vet orgs in their states, such as DAV, AL, VFW, MOPH,VVA, Amvets, etc etc, who can be reached by phone or email to have an appointment set up for representation.

The VA web site itself has traditionally always had a vast listing of nationwide vet orgs and reps.They took it down for some reason for a while and it could have moved to the OGC page but it is there somewhere.

My daughter,when she had to go to the VAMC in Buffalo for her intel tests for the mil and the physical etc, found within minutes a DAV office right in the VAMC and asked if she could get a VARO tour. She had already taken outside photos of the RO that I wanted to put photo of on my PC desk when I was working on my claim.The photos helped my focus.

The DAV rep said he could give her a peek into the Buffalo VARO and she said that was quite an overwhelming view (she bust out laughing because it was really wall to wall, desk to desk, thousands of claims folders and even stacks on the floor)but my point is she said she also noticed office signs either in the VARO or the VAMC for AL, MOPH , AmVets etc etc.,all providing VA claims help to vets and their dependents.

It often might be a good idea to even visit a vet org office in person to make that first appointment if you can.

There is considerable info in this DIC forum as to these types of claims.

But not only can DIC become a very complex issue ,vastly different from every other type of veteran's claim here on the hadit boards, the VA itself ,since the decades I did that DIC article for S & S has become more confounded ,confusing, and complex than I ever dreamed it would and in those days a 20,000 claim backlog was the biggest gripe of vets then but now it is up to a possible million claims in the system and that grows by the day.

So I strongly advise any newly widowed spouse who comes here for help to realize the internet has become a fantastic tool for VA claimants but DIC claims are specialized issues and it is always best to come here with questions but get a vet rep first, who can get the claim off and running with a proper 21-534 form filled out, the issues defined well in the form, and who can advise best as to whether you have a basis for substitution for any potential accrued benefits.

I have been widowed of 2 vets. I KNOW the grief is horrible and that your entire life has changed.

I also know that both the DIC form and the accrued benefits claim has a deadline-these forms MUST be filed within one year after the veteran has died.

There are no exceptions except for Nehmer claimants.

Hours are spent in sadness and solitude and the days seem so long when the spouse has suddenly left forever. I know exactly how it feels.

I made my husband his morning coffee every day for many months after he died until it hit me, he was not here anymore and wasnt coming back.

On the other hand, that one year deadline for the best EED for DIC and the accrued claim passes by faster than one thinks.

Once the forms are filed and the paperwork (marriage license, death certificates, birth certs if any children, etc etc is done,then you can take the time to continue to get through the grieving process, which never ends anyhow, but you can accept the death somehow ,at some point, and hopefully if you are eligible for DIC ,the VA will provide to you the only way they can honor your husband's death,

with an award of DIC.

There is much honor in a Direct Service Connected death of a spouse.

tI think the honor of their sacrifice is the only thing that keeps many of us surviving spouses going . It is our greatest fear when we, like me, also have children who joined the military

-but if our children die in service or directly due to their service, (and I discussed this with many parents of Military as well as a good friend whose daughter was killed by an IED last year in Iraq,)

somehow

that

death with honor becomes in time , far more acceptable at some point ,than many types of tragic and even senseless deaths we all hear of nationwide, every day.

VA does not have the time to read about or consider our grief when dealing with a DIC claim. A DIC claim has nothing to do with our grief.

A good vet rep can keep the focus on the evidence needed to support the DIC claim.

In some cases the VA might be able to provide a spouse with grief counseling.They did that for me via my husand's VA shrink.

It pays to ask them to see if their VAMC could handle that type of help.

Edited by Berta
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Berta

In the case where I have a CUE at the Court represented by a lawyer if I were to die next week what should my widow do? I think it is most likely going to be direct SC death or the 10 year P&T DIC, but I would need an autopsy for to prove direct SC (SC heart in place at 60%). Would my wife be better off doing DIC via a VSO in the area or using lawyer who is a 1000 miles away?

John

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Great question John-

I will try to find the answer- as to the CAVC case.

I don't know how a spouse can take over a CAVC case if the veteran dies .

I always feel an autopsy should be done.

The very first heart slide info in my husband's autopsy was critical to my claim that he died due to complications of DMII (untreated and never diagnosed by VA).

Oddly enough.,although the autopsy revealed far more then the death certificate as to other disabilities and complications of the diabetes, I had overlooked that above part of the heart slides in 2003 when I filed the claim, thinking I understood a medical word in the slide description.

Just before that claim was awarded (I had habit of going over my evidence every week and found a lot more during the 7 years this claim took)

I read the autopsy again and decided to look up the cardio word in a med net site and Bingo-

here the medical definition was far more probative than I thought to my claim and could have been a great oint to raise back in 2003.

The VA denied my original 1151 DIC claim many times, denying at one point saying the veteran had died of an overdose of COCAINE!

They had absolutely no medical rationale for that and the RO had withheld the autopsy from the VA doctor who gave this opinion.

My husband was (as the recent award I got shows, was completely Housebound, with SMC awarded for Extremity weaknesses,the VA van took him to VA day treatment, and he could not handle money , because he could not feel change and had a visual impairment too and never had more then a dollar or two on him to get coffee at the VA Other then going to the store with me once in a while and to the VA 3 days a week, it was absurd that someone who had limited contact with anyone and no money would somehow find a drug dealer and acquire a "fatal dose of cocaine'- as the C & P doctor speculated, in order to deny the claim.

You can imagine the fire I lit under some VA asses over that one.

His autopsy revealed he only had 2 VA meds in his system-no alcohol, and certainly no other types of drugs.

So, although the VA deliberately had withheld the autopsy from the C & P doc -

that was straightened out real quick

but, can you imagine what would have happened if NO autopsy was ever done?

No DIC but worse yet, a federal document from a VA C & P doctor saying my dear husband with 2 Honorables and combat service ,had died in VA's opinion from an overdose of cocaine.

There was no way I would allow them to get away with that shit-but then again

The VA could do this to any survivor if no autopsy was done.

ANy VSO is trained in DIC claims and could help her John. If she doesnt feel comfortable withone VSO or rep, she could dump them and get another one.

I have no idea on the CAVC situation, as to whether she could substitute herself as the claimant in event o your death......

I hope I can find that answer in the VBM..... and will post it here....

I

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John -I realised the answer to your CAVC question was right in my stack of unread mail-

I had contacted Dave of Bergmann and Moore due to this post

and Dave mailed me hard copy of the Veteran's Quarterly that delves into subsitution regs on page 3.

I just found it on line too at

http://www.vetlawyer...2Newsletter.pdf

I regret I dont have time this minute to read it all because I also feel the need to read Padgett V Nickolson and the other cases they cited in this article to really interpret all of it.

Somewhere at hadit is Dave's email addy too regarding the Veteran Quarterly- and he might be able to explain this more,if the article doesnt really answer your question,via email.

The Quarterly also brings up the differences of accrued and substitution regs for survivors and in some cases it is more advantageous for a survivor to request accrued rather than substitution- I need to go over those regs again a few times to make sure that info is in the DIC forum.

DIC has become so complex over the years that a good vet rep, with the deceased veteran's claims info right in front of them as to any pending claim at death,

can better decide on a one to one basis if an individual survivor should request substitution or simply pursue accrued benefits.

As great as the internet is for claims advocacy, it also has limits as to putting page after page of downloads of personal info here ,in some cases, to even have us try to attempt to determine whether accrued benefits should be requested or ,instead, a substitution for a deceased claimant should be made.And we could be wrong.

This is another good reason that survivors certainly need to come here to hadit with questions but also need to acquire good vet reps, and in some cases they will need a lawyer too.

Of course Karl would know the answer to your CAVC question but I am sure he is overwhelmed these days.

This might be a GREAT SVR show subject too with Carrie Weletz from B & G as she really knows her stuff!

Edited by Berta
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I just had a wonderful discussion with David at Bergmann and Moore-

he clarified the profound CAVC statement quoted on page 4 as it is cited from Breedlove V Shinseki-

in the Bergmann and Moore Veteran's Quarterly I put link to here earlier this AM.

Breedlove is the most recent CAVC decision regarding these issues-

As soon as I get time- I will read Breedlove carefully and try to pick out the critical parts and put here but I feel the quote in the Veterans Quarterly says it all in this respect:........

.... it has been suggested here that some VSOs and reps , dealing with vet survivors, are still holding to 'the claim died with the vet" BS, never quite telling the survivor how to ressurrect the claim,

and survivors upon hearing this unfounded death mantra , need to whip out Breedlove and tell those reps to shove it up........ooops

instead they should just get a better vet rep.

I heard this crap in 1995 and my rep was stunned that I said I wanted to resurrect the claim, and knew that I could do that re: 38 CFR yet I know that by now ALL vet reps know better and dont even need Breedlove as it has been established VA policy for decades that survivors can continue the pending claim of deceased veterans.

Breedlove simply reiterates that fact. A fact of established VA case law that some reps might still not know.

Or dont want to know because DIC claims can become a lot of work.

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The VA denied my original 1151 DIC claim many times, denying at one point saying the veteran had died of an overdose of COCAINE!

They had absolutely no medical rationale for that and the RO had withheld the autopsy from the VA doctor who gave this opinion.

[...]

they do the same to veterans that used to drink. though, there is no known medical scientific evidence drinking causes MS and its issues (my case). i didn't know you had to go through that with your husband. gee, felt alone there for awhile.

good post and informative. i hope other veterans read your post as the VA does this to the living too. there is zero accountability at VA, nada.

its very important, more so now with the recent federal court reversal to overhaul VA treatment system

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