Need a claim plan from the wisdom of the crowd

[VN-Vet]

Looking for the Wisdom of the crowd here.

I have not fie a claim with the VA – yet.

I intend to file an intent to file before the end of the month, so it would give me a year to further gather evidence and proof of my intended anticipated claims to be made and preserve ‘the month of ‘March of 2018’ as my file date.

I already had received some files from St. Louis, but unfortunately not all clinic visits were included, and several other documents I know were supposed to be in there. So, I faxed St. Louis again today for everything – well see.

I am a Vietnam Vet – so Agent Orange and all it is connected with will be on the list I intend to be checked out for. 

Of the missing clinic visits, the more important issues where problems diagnosed with my ears, that made me dizzy and nauseated daily, about 2pm everyday while on duty. Also, was a diagnosis and treatment with what I remember as a fungus that supposedly ate my skin pigment and left white circles on my tanned torso, I was given topical medication and pills of some sort. Yet another issue was the flaking of my skin on my head, face, mostly around the base of nose, eyebrows, and forehead. Seems like I was given topical meds and antibiotics. None of this was in the file I received. The clinic I was treated at was located in the secured compound housing HQ of the HHC 1st Aviation Brigade, Crypto Bunker and where I worked, , AVDAC (Aviation Data Analysis Center). Worse, I can’t find anything about where this was located on Long Binh base, or any information on it. There is noting in my file other than my assignment to HHC 1st Aviation Brigade, and I just noticed my file doesn’t even contain a review from HHC 1st Aviation Brigade, or AVDAC, just 3 hash marks under my review from the 101st Admin Company in Phi Bai. 

As far as I can tell, AVDAC received high praise, but our data and purpose were absorbed by other operations, as it should have been as technology advanced. So, I don’t know how to find anything about AVDAC, or how to find out what the clinic name was, who the doctor was, or how I might obtain the files if they are not sent to me in the request for all files today. We worked in a secured fenced in area and the tiny clinic treated mostly officers, lots of Generals, and the enlisted personnel that worked in the compound so we never had to be gone from or duty to the base clinic/hospital. I was told the old doctor, who was a hell of a nice guy, was the Surgeon General of Vietnam, but then, my Colonel (Colonel Short – about 6’6”) in charge of AVDAC really liked joking around with us. Any suggestions – I am stuck and the conditions that developed I in VN I had been able to control by various means for decades, but have always flared up with stress, illnesses, heat, dryness, etc. but the past several years have been very hard to control and painful. Every doctor I see says it is something different then the last doctor.
So, before the year passes, I intend to be thoroughly examined by outside of the VA doctors, and I’ll take appropriate DBQ with me, even if they will not fill it out, maybe they’ll go over the checkboxes with me. Any Suggestions?

Of the claims I intend to make, PTSD and MST PTSD will be on the list – top of the list in many ways. The PTSD has affected my life for about 44 years now, my kids and wife have suffered but all still love me. I have alienated nearly all my family, and have most other signs, there is no doubt I have PTSD, it depends if I am diagnosed with it. I started to going to a shrink a decade or so, but stopped short of being open, just couldn’t do it. Once again, any suggestions.

I am also concerned as how to handle MST part of my PTSD. I have issues from VN, but the MST happened on base in our barracks on Bragg. The issue gets very complicated, but I know the truth just how to prove it will be the crux of the matter. I am also afraid, as I have been for 44 years to push it, as I might lose any claim to PTSD for other stressors.
Last question for the people familiar with MST, what do you think of the 2 MST Agents in very state, I think they work for the VA, maybe each state. Are they people I can trust – I have breathed a word of this to anyone except family and 1 old army buddy since I left the army. 

OMG – this is a book already and I haven’t scratched the surface of what I need help with
 

[Andyman73]

@VN-Vet

I’m so sorry that happened to you. Happened to me too. For PTSD due to personal trauma(MST), you need not have any proof whatsoever. They can use why they call “markers” which are changes in behavior that would have been noted by others at that time. 

The MST May be easier to get SC for, as you don’t have to have documentation for it. The VA does recognize that many of us never report for fear of reprisal or worse. Never mind the overwhelming shame and self blame factors. The VA also uses outside contracted forensic psychologists to conduct the exam. I was terrified that I was going to be railroaded, but was quite surprised that the examiner not only believed me but was rather compassionate about the whole thing too. 

If you wish to discuss more personally feel free to pm me.

Semper Fi,

Andy

[Berta]

I suggest that you mention the MST event after you tell them of your incountry stressors.

It only takes one proven stressor to obtain a PTSD diagnosis.

Do you have the CAR or the CIB on your DD 214?

I completely agree with the first part of this statement: 

"I realize that MST will probably more time consuming and the VA will challenge everything I can muster up, which is why I would 'hope' I could be evaluated with the stressors from Vietnam first,(what I agree with)

to see what I get with that, and then substitute that with the MST if I am successful. But maybe that is not possible or not allowed."

If you get a PTSD diagnosis due to proven stressors, from Vietnam there  would be no need to revisit the MST problem...in my opinion..... but I do think you should claim MST after you claim PTSD from other non MST stressors...in the same initial claim.

You certainly might want to get on the AO Registry.

All of the AO presumptives are searchable here.

Vietnam vets who have found that they needed proof of stressors often find their units on line and can get buddy statements that way.Oftain Units have reunion list and contact info on members.

I did articles here on What a stressor is and what it isn't and also on buddy letters.

Best to list the most easiest stressor(s) to prove.

 

 

 

[broncovet]

It sounds like you are getting it together.  Just a few suggestions:

1.  You need to decide on a representative, or to "go it alone".  Both have advantages and disadvantages.  A VSO wont "cost" you anything, but THERE are hidden costs.  For example, your VSO "could" give you advice which costs you money, such as delaying filing, not appealing, or not going for an increase.  If the advice is suspicious, then post it to hadit where there are members with 10 plus years experience.  I am one of them.

2.  Do keep on trying to get those lost records, BUT, they dont "always" make a difference.  Focus on the basic "Caluza triangle" of a)  Current diagnosis b) in service event or aggravation and c) nexus or medical link between your current diagnosis and the in service event.  You dont have to have each time you were treated in the military to document your conditions.  

3.  If you have little or no income, then consider also filing for pension.  Its easier to get than compensation and, if my VSO would have suggested I apply for pension at the same time as compensation, then I would not have lost my home, as the pension would have been enough to get by while I was fighting VA for compensation.  

4.  Like this or not, VA insists that only their own docs can diagnose PTSD (for VA comp purposes).  Outside docs can diagnose and treat almost anything, but VA wants your PTSD diagnosed by a VA doc.  If you have a PTSD diagnosis by a VA doc, then you have "leg 1" of the Caluza triangle, which is required for service connections.  You will also need a "stressor" (in service event that caused your PTSD.  PTSD can be caused by stuff outside of the military, of course, so you need documentation of your stressor, whether it be PTSD or MST)   So, for example, if you were a victim of MST at Ft. Bragg, but you did not report it, its gonna be difficult for you to get SC for MST.  

5.  Documentation is everything.  If it isnt documented, it never happened according to VA.  

[VN-Vet]

Thanks broncovet - I would love to be able to trust a VSO or someone that really knew the ups and downs of filing different claims,  I just have the fear of the unknown and not much of a way to determine who is really on top of things and those that don't do as well, I wish there were a system someone that Vets could rate the VSO, VSA, Attorney, etc. - and I am still learning the lingo.

Any help on finding a good trustworthy VSO would be helpful.

Not sure about the 'You dont have to have each time you were treated in the military to document your conditions.' . I thought I should have those pillars established before I file any claim, and the have a G&P exams if the VA thinks the claims are creditable enough. Are you saying I don't need them?

I am not sure where to go to find the missing clinic records, because so far the NPRC hasn't given me much while I was at AVDAC - well nothing to be exact. The unit no longer exists, NPRC may have nothing? Need help if I need to use the FOIA card - sounds complicated. How long would the FOIA take - if that would be the route?

At this point I don't have an income, but my wife does well for both of us. If the pension was based on my income alone that wouldn't be a problem, but if household income is used, I doubt if I would qualify.

AS far as the PTSD is concerned, I am extremely sure I have it, my history pretty well shows it, even though I tried hiding most of it for decades, but looking back I really couldn't. I was thinking going to a shrink for treatment and therapy, as I have insurance that would pay for most of it for now, and this may help later on when the VA shrink conducts the C&P, and I can show I have made efforts at handling things.

Remember,  my MST happened back in 73, and even though I reported it to my squad leader,  the guys laughed, so I doubt anything happened beyond that. From what I am piecing together now, with the help of my records, is that assault happened right after I returned from  Womack Army Hospital, but I am not positive that is when it happened. What I thought I remembered is that for some reason I was by myself and off duty, I went into the day room, I thought the crowd there was watching the Super Bowl and was kind of routy, and then the sergeant  came up to me and said something like, it is kind of rough here, tell you what, if you want we can go watch the game on the TV in my room, and I have a frig in there and a few beers - or something like that. Hey - I think he was the company clerk or something like that, I know he had a lot of power in the company and a favorite of the XO and Co, so I said sure. I even worked in the office for a while with him and never noticed anything really strange about him. A few minutes in the room he assaulted me, all I remember at this moment, was I was worried about aggravating my recent injury that I had a cast on to protect. I fought like hell and think I remember hurting him pretty bad, and then I discovered he had locked the door, and forced him to unlock it. I think the drugs given to me for the pain at Womack had me at a disadvantage. The barracks were about empty, but the squad leader and a few guys were in their room with the windows wide open, even though it was in the 20s. and I smelled pot. I mentioned what happened to report it, and they acted like I should have known - admittedly I must have been naive, but there is no excuse That haunted me since then, and trust me, it goes on for months afterwards, on how I was treated.

I did mention it to my nest friend in the Army at the time, but I don't know if he remembers - fortunately I still know where he lives. 

I just met a great gal, and got married a couple moths later - and told my her what happened before we got married. Looking back I wonder if I didn't rush into marriage to prove my manhood? But we have been together ever since - thanks to her patience and understanding.

Then I got out of the service the next year, and mentioned it to 2 of my brothers, I am not sure if either remembers, and even if they did I have successfully got my family upset with me, well probably because of the PTSD.

There was a video that I think was on Hadit - where a ex marine describes what he went through, and I had a tear because I have gone through the same thing. My Stressors are different, but the symptoms are spot on.

But my situation does concern me, because I brought stressors back with me from Vietnam, they are different from the MST/ Assault, and I don't know if these would be considered 2 separate issues, which they should be, or if the VA will want to lump them together in the same basket, and if they turn down my claim on the MST, if that would hurt the PTSD claim from Vietnam.

I can clearly show a change in my performance after the attack, and if I could get my hands on the duty assignments, I could definitely show a sudden change on what duty I was assigned to. I did consider going to a JAG, but at the time my platoon Sergeant warned me that I might be run out of the service instead, even though I never saw any paperwork on this, and was never interviewed by anyone, so I don't feel it was recorded in any record. Again - that is the way the Army was back in those days. I was basically punished from that day forward, not the attacker. Need to mention here, My Platoon Sergeant was a great guy, I trusted him and felt he had my best interests at heart, and that there was just nothing either of us could do without hurting our careers. He and the Platoon Leader, 2nd Lieutenant, also gave me an excellent review the next month for the previous period, but things changed soon after that as well.

TMI - probably, but this is the first time in about 44 years I have mentioned any of this in any detail - I have hid it - and lived a horrible life because of it.  Maybe I should delete it if it is too much - what do you guys think?

Edited March 23, 2018 by VN-Vet

[broncovet]

As far as PTSD and MST, here is the scoop.  Something called "pyramiding" prevents you from being compensated for the same symptoms twice.  PTSD and MST are BOTH considered mental health disorders.  Generally, mental health disorders, once service connected are rated the same.  Below are the symptoms to which mental disorders are rated by VA.  

Do you have a diagnosis of PTSD by a doctor?  With PTSD they want you to document a "stressor", that is, something awful that happened in the military which caused you trauma.  MST can be that stressor, but documenting something that you were not treated for in the military is problematic.  Did you mention your MST to a doctor or medical professional in the military?

Here is the rating criteria on mental disorders (such as depression, PTSD, MST, etc).  Remember, if you have multiple diagnosis of different mental health issues, you will be rated only For the worst one, not for each one:

General Rating Formula for Mental Disorders

	Rating
Total occupational and social impairment, due to such symptoms as: gross impairment in thought processes or communication; persistent delusions or hallucinations; grossly inappropriate behavior; persistent danger of hurting self or others; intermittent inability to perform activities of daily living (including maintenance of minimal personal hygiene); disorientation to time or place; memory loss for names of close relatives, own occupation, or own name.	100
Occupational and social impairment, with deficiencies in most areas, such as work, school, family relations, judgment, thinking, or mood, due to such symptoms as: suicidal ideation; obsessional rituals which interfere with routine activities; speech intermittently illogical, obscure, or irrelevant; near-continuous panic or depression affecting the ability to function independently, appropriately and effectively; impaired impulse control (such as unprovoked irritability with periods of violence); spatial disorientation; neglect of personal appearance and hygiene; difficulty in adapting to stressful circumstances (including work or a worklike setting); inability to establish and maintain effective relationships.	70
Occupational and social impairment with reduced reliability and productivity due to such symptoms as: flattened affect; circumstantial, circumlocutory, or stereotyped speech; panic attacks more than once a week; difficulty in understanding complex commands; impairment of short- and long-term memory (e.g., retention of only highly learned material, forgetting to complete tasks); impaired judgment; impaired abstract thinking; disturbances of motivation and mood; difficulty in establishing and maintaining effective work and social relationships.	50
Occupational and social impairment with occasional decrease in work efficiency and intermittent periods of inability to perform occupational tasks (although generally functioning satisfactorily, with routine behavior, self-care, and conversation normal), due to such symptoms as: depressed mood, anxiety, suspiciousness, panic attacks (weekly or less often), chronic sleep impairment, mild memory loss (such as forgetting names, directions, recent events).	30
Occupational and social impairment due to mild or transient symptoms which decrease work efficiency and ability to perform occupational tasks only during periods of significant stress, or symptoms controlled by continuous medication.	10
A mental condition has been formally diagnosed, but symptoms are not severe enough either to interfere with occupational and social functioning or to require continuous medication.	0

9520 Anorexia nervosa

9521 Bulimia nervosa

The rating schedule above, has a lot to do with your impairment on your occupation.  Notice that 0 percent shows a diagnosis, but your symptoms dont interefere with your job.  Are you working?  

[VN-Vet]

Thanks broncovet - that is pretty much what I thought, the issue about pyramiding and putting all stressors into the same basket of PTSD.

Actually, I would not know how all the stressors could be separated from each other, evaluated and proportionally assigned a percentage of whatever level PSTD I may be diagnosed with, but that is something I guess I will find out.

Absolutely never mentioned the attack to anyone at medical, as I knew they would probably make a big deal out of it and I was more or less advised it would come back on me, not the pervert. 

No one back then was ever evaluated for any battle fatigue, shell shock or Vietnam Syndrome and MST did not exist at all back then as it does today - that is the crux of the matter. Doesn't mean it did not happen, doesn't mean I shouldn't proceed, so I am left with only the other option, and that is through buddy letters of before and after, and an examination of my service record of before the assault and afterwards - and that would be as different as day and night. Not an easy row to hoe, but one I never less have in my future.

I realize that MST will probably more time consuming and the VA will challenge everything I can muster up, which is why I would 'hope' I could be evaluated with the stressors from Vietnam first, to see what I get with that, and then substitute that with the MST if I am successful. But maybe that is not possible or not allowed.

Getting way ahead of myself here, a lot of things have to happen before we get to that point, but as I said, I need to make a plan to get what I need in place before I need it. or until there is noting left I can do, and I can say I won, or I fought the best fight possible.

I am open to all the coaching, advice, direction, and suggestions that will get me from where I am now, to a successful end.

Also open to suggestions of who I might use as a VSO, Agent, or someone to handle and guide me with my claim  , trying to obtain as much as possible, ASAP, while still preparing for what I read is going to be denials and a hard fight thereafter. 

BTW - going back to the Agent Orange - I hear there is some kind of registry, somewhere. Would it be advisable to be on it. or is that like letting the enemy know what you are planning?

This is the list containing the Agents - the VA call MST Coordinators - that I was referring to when I asked if these people would actually help develop a solid MST claim, or would it be like letting the enemy know your strategy (plans)?
https://www.benefits.va.gov/benefits/mstcoordinators.asp

 

 

 

Edited March 23, 2018 by VN-Vet
Added link