lumbosacral Va Is Trying To Hoodwink Me

[lamontino]

Hi there I probably have one of the most complex case(well VA made it complex)ever. At the rip age of 14 I went to an doctors appointment to try to figure out why my legs was hurting, the doctor said that I was having pain in my back or that where i was getting the pain from, I told him that my back didnt hurt at all(which is documented in that report) just my legs. Instead the doctor did x rays on my back(which the films are not available and the doctor is decease as of this date) revealing that I had bilateral spondylolysis at the L5 and minimal Grade I anterior spondylolisthesis L5 S1 no acute injury or other abnormalities are recognized. I was give Mortin 800 and sent on my way in life under the understanding that I could do anything or be anything I wanted to be in life. I later went to job corp and recieved a state high school diploma. I went in the military in May of 1986, fresh out of job corps and eager to get started with my new potential found career in the military(11 Bravo 10th Mountain Div. I did the entry exam, medical exam etc.... to past and get accepted in the military at that time I also disclosed to the examing doctor that I had previous had a leg problem assoiciated with my back which I took mortin 800(which is documented in that report). The medical exam ask if my back or legs was still bothering me? I told him no. And than did a physical exam of my back etc......He cleared me to go in the army.

Two weeks into basic training I fell off a wall that had a bottom pedastel on the bottom(like a wall with a patform at the bottom, I went to sick call there I was exam dianoise as having tender points at L2 and L5. I was given meds(800mg of mortin)and a rectal exam and release back to basic training. A couple of days later I twisted my back out of place by repeating standing up and down at a rapid speed(just before that my unit was low crawling with backpack on and marching). I than went to sick call again where I was seen no through xray was done again and sent back out to basic training. As we where bidwacking in the field I became sick with pain now in my legs, back,and stomach. I went to sick call where they but me in the hospital for a two days. I was release again this time I got only a culture of my stomach which revealed that I had esophastis and gastrisis and given a appointment to see the otho doctor at army martin hospital and sent back out to basic training again.

At the doctors office, at army martin hospial I seen a otho doctor whom dianoise me as having "chronic mechincal low back pain and giving me a permanent L3 Profile with no running or lifting". Diagnosis of Lumbosacral spine with bilateral spondylolysis L5.

I got a honorable discharge with a reenlistment code of RE-3. I tried to fight from being discharge without getting some type of disability through the IG office and met with a person whom never got back with me on the issues that I was trying to address.

I continue to have severe back pain and proceeded to my local VA office for further care. I did disclose to the doctor at local VA hospital of the condition in the military and prior to me being in the military. There I was given a c&p exam. I was given an exam of my back which the radiologic report now says "No evidence of spondylolysis or spondylolisthesis apophyseal and sacroiliac joints are unremarkable no fracture or dislocation(basically alot of the paperwork on that date of exam which was a month later after i was discharge wasnt done).

During my life at that time I didnt have a place to stationary live my life so I was basically homeless. I never heard back from the rating peoples about how, what, and if I was going to recieve anything from this injury. Until years later when I requested documents of my complete file.

Which claim they wanted me to come in for a RHEUM EXAM(once I found out that i was wondering why would they schedule me for a rheumary arthisis exam if they didnt find anything on the radiologic report revealing anything inreference to my back).

I tried for years to get benefits from the VA but was denied each time because they say that I had a diease prior to service and that through my life as of today I had two previous auto accident(which in those reports I never had injuried my back which is well documented)and the new doctor exam says that his etiology say that it is the natural course of the diease as to why I still in pain.

I did apply for SSI and SSA which I did get approved(which social securtiy only pays for one year prior to your filing of your claim meaning they dont go back to the orgin of the time you was injury or permenantly disabled)but in those reports The ALJ for got to put in about the onset of the injury I got in the military. BUt I know for certain it was discuss at my finally hearing on that tape record statement of the onset, in reference to my back.

Through the years my back condition worsen developing to fibermyloa as well as other delvelopments including depression. As of today I about to go to a travel broad hearing. Wondering if I could get some advice on what is what. Thanks for your help

[Hoppy]

"otho doctor whom dianoise me as having "chronic mechincal low back pain and giving me a permanent L3 Profile with no running or lifting". Diagnosis of Lumbosacral spine with bilateral spondylolysis L5."

The profile mentioned above is significant evidence of in-service aggrivation if you had records of this - "revealing that I had bilateral spondylolysis at the L5 and minimal Grade I anterior spondylolisthesis L5 S1 no acute injury or other abnormalities are recognized." What happened to these records. Do you have treatment notes. How would you be able to remember such specific details of a diagnosis at the age of 14 without notes or reports from the doctor?

Doesn't the military rate permanent profiles. If not why? Should this have been given at least a 0% at discharge. Although the rating schedule rates back injuries by range of motion I would argue that a restriction on running and lifting was not in effect prior to entry and thus indicates an aggrivation of the pre-existing condition. This would explain the C&P if you ran into s crooked C&P examiner. Have the xrays and other tests taken at the time of the C&P reviewed by an IMO. If you can not get those films then have them re-taken by the IMO.

I knew a guy who had a back condition that predated service and he got a report from a doctor that stated that there was no way that he could have withstood the rigorous training and conditioning in the military without aggrivating the pre service condition. He actually got the doctor to say that the military errored by allowing him in the military.

There would need to be significant evidence that the car accidents were inter current injuries. The RO sometimes pretends to know more than they really know about medicine. They claimed to have evidence my disability was the result of post service employment. It was total BS. A DRO saw through the BS and awarded my claim.

I really do not think it matters much if you had a pre-existing condition or not if a doctor will state that the current conditions are the result of progressions of the inservice condition for which you were profiled. You can assert this to the RO until you are blue in the face. The RO will not listen and they will not do anything for you. Even though you deserved the C&P you were actually lucky to get a C&P. The C&P examiner shot you down. You have to get stronger medical evidence for this claim to progress in my opinion.

The VA fights back injury claims. There have been plenty of folks on hadit who have done battle with them. Like Berta said you will have to get doctors to connect the dots for the RO.

[free_spirit_etc]

From what I understand - you wouldn't be granted the presumption of soundness on this one - as the back problem pre-dated the service and were documented. However, you should be granted the presumption of aggravation, meaning that it is supposed to be presumed that your injury was aggravated in the service UNLESS the VA can SHOW by clear and convincing evidence that your problems are caused by the natural progression of the disease, rather than from being aggravated by in service occurances.

Luckily --the burden of proof is on the VA to rebut the presumption of aggravation with clear and convincing evidence (a more strigent standard than the "more likely than not standard that the veteran must meet).

Unfortunately, the VA seems to be pretty good about clearly undertanding their own logic and convincing themselves - proving they atually can read at times.

In a perfect world - and UNDER THE LAW - you are not required to actually prove your condition was aggravated by the service. You are granted the presumptionn unless THEY prove different.

However, I wouldn't count on the VA following the law on this - until, or unless they are forced to. You can even take it up to the CVA - and they can see the BVA didn't actually prove their case -- but instead of granting it - they will more likely remand it back to the BVA to further "perfect" their denial.

So anything that can help prove your case will be very helpful.

I would think that few problems BEFORE service - and SIGNIFICANT problems IN service and AFTER service would be a strong indication that something changed.

I wonder why the VA has so much trouble determining that a condition someone has right after the service is connected to the same type of condition they had in the service (when the veteran is to be granted the benefit of the doubt) -- but they can easily leap back YEARS to say something you have long after the service is connected to a PRESERVICE condition.(when they are charged with actually PROVING that it is not).

Something just ain't quite right.

Free

[carlie]

Here's some information that should be helpful to your claim.

carlie

http://usmilitary.about.com/od/joiningthemilitary/l/blpulse.htm Military Physical Profile Serial System - The PULHES Factors

To determine medical standards for different jobs, and to make sure that military members are medically qualified to perform the duties of that job, the military has developed a medical profile indicator, known as the physical profile serial system.

The physical profile serial system is based primarily upon the function of body systems and their relation to military duties. The functions of the various organs, systems, and integral parts of the body are considered. Since the analysis of the individual's medical, physical, and mental status plays an important role in assignment and welfare, the military takes great care in executing the functional grading. In developing the system, the functions have been considered under six factors designated "P–U–L–H–E–S." Each of these letters stand for a specific medical area:

(3) L — Lower extremities. This factor concerns the feet, legs, pelvic girdle, lower back musculature and lower spine (lower lumbar and sacral) in regard to strength, range of motion, and general efficiency.

As for the numerical designators, they generally mean a military medical evaluation of:

(3) A profile containing one or more numerical designators of "3" signifies that the individual has one or more medical conditions or physical defects that may require significant limitations. For those applying for military service, this designation is usually a disqualification. For individuals already in the service, the individual should receive assignments commensurate with his or her physical capability for military duty (ie, limited duty/assignments)

Specific Definitions:

"L" Position - Lower extremities (3rd number in the profile series) - Strength, range of movement, and efficiency of feet, legs, lower back and pelvic girdle.

1 - No loss of digits or limitation of motion; no demonstrable abnormality; able to perform long marches, stand over long periods, run.

2 - Slightly limited mobility of joints, muscular weakness, or other musculo-skeletal defects that do not prevent moderate marching, climbing, timed walking, or prolonged effort.

3 - Defects or impairments that require significant restriction of use.

http://www.army.com/enlist/ps_re_codes.html U.S. ARMY RE CODES ARMY, RE-3 Individuals who are not qualified for continued Army service, but the disqualification is waiverable. Ineligible for enlistment unless a waiver is granted.

Edited June 4, 2007 by carlie

[lamontino]

The profile mentioned above is significant evidence of in-service aggrivation if you had records of this - "revealing that I had bilateral spondylolysis at the L5 and minimal Grade I anterior spondylolisthesis L5 S1 no acute injury or other abnormalities are recognized." What happened to these records. Do you have treatment notes. How would you be able to remember such specific details of a diagnosis at the age of 14 without notes or reports from the doctor?

---------------------------------

I have those records of my injury only being acute from when I was only, exactly 16 which I got from The VA when I requested my c-file. They claim they never had my private medical records be when I did my request they did(On my c&p exam on July 2004 they told their otho doctor they didnt have my past private medical records either for some reason). But they made that doctor change his decision three different times to reflect me not getting a disability award. He first start saying that my injury was "at least likely as not" to " less like as not"

"otho doctor whom dianoise me as having "chronic mechincal low back pain and giving me a permanent L3 Profile with no running or lifting". Diagnosis of Lumbosacral spine with bilateral spondylolysis L5."

The profile mentioned above is significant evidence of in-service aggrivation if you had records of this - "revealing that I had bilateral spondylolysis at the L5 and minimal Grade I anterior spondylolisthesis L5 S1 no acute injury or other abnormalities are recognized." What happened to these records. Do you have treatment notes. How would you be able to remember such specific details of a diagnosis at the age of 14 without notes or reports from the doctor?

Doesn't the military rate permanent profiles. If not why? Should this have been given at least a 0% at discharge. Although the rating schedule rates back injuries by range of motion I would argue that a restriction on running and lifting was not in effect prior to entry and thus indicates an aggrivation of the pre-existing condition. This would explain the C&P if you ran into s crooked C&P examiner. Have the xrays and other tests taken at the time of the C&P reviewed by an IMO. If you can not get those films then have them re-taken by the IMO.

I knew a guy who had a back condition that predated service and he got a report from a doctor that stated that there was no way that he could have withstood the rigorous training and conditioning in the military without aggrivating the pre service condition. He actually got the doctor to say that the military errored by allowing him in the military.

There would need to be significant evidence that the car accidents were inter current injuries. The RO sometimes pretends to know more than they really know about medicine. They claimed to have evidence my disability was the result of post service employment. It was total BS. A DRO saw through the BS and awarded my claim.

I really do not think it matters much if you had a pre-existing condition or not if a doctor will state that the current conditions are the result of progressions of the inservice condition for which you were profiled. You can assert this to the RO until you are blue in the face. The RO will not listen and they will not do anything for you. Even though you deserved the C&P you were actually lucky to get a C&P. The C&P examiner shot you down. You have to get stronger medical evidence for this claim to progress in my opinion.

The VA fights back injury claims. There have been plenty of folks on hadit who have done battle with them. Like Berta said you will have to get doctors to connect the dots for the RO.

[Hoppy]

It sounds to me like they have down played the significance of the pre service condition. I do not think this is a big problem. The problem is when the doctor changed from "at least likely as not" to "less likely than not". This statement was in reference to the military profile being related to the current condition. This is the real issue in service connection.

Do you have the original report showing "at least likely as not"? How was the doctor prodded to change? Was another C&P exam scheduled? Did the doctor state that he made an error on the first statement to "at least likely as not. Or, did they get a second medical opinion?

[lamontino]

Yes Sir, I have the orginal copy of the report from c&p examintor which clearly states "that it is my opinion that vet at least likely than not". But he wanted to get xrays of my back which was done on or about the same day. Than somtime down the line the VA did another request. Basically, as I read it they was trying to encoach the exam to say something else like "we dont like that you said vet is disable. They detail statments of what they want(it was totally different from the norm)and they didnt want me to get a good decision from the doctor. Than mysteriously I was scehdule for another exam/opinon from and allegled Otho doctor, suregeon whom basically bombard ambigious-his-own-mind thoughts on how I became to what I am in injuries. He never conducted any type of measurments or performance according to how you guys put on the forum. He basically just talk to me and nothing else. But on his report he claim to have perform tests. I apply that issue on the appeal to BVA.

I did take you all advise an was blessed with being able to get right in to see an IME. I did this day infact. I show him everything I had including doctors reports before I went in the service. This doctor did question as to I was only in the service only a month and a half and the VA might be looking at my claim as vague or more upseting with prejudice.

But I provide everything that was sent to me from VA, my private medical records to date, and all the radiologic reports I ever recieve even for things in my life that happen to me that had no essence of this claim(I was involved in two motor vehicule accidents which involved my neck and shoulder).

My doctor appoint is schedule with doctor in 15 days. And as he perform his own x-rays and read mostly alot of what happen. He says that he can help me. I told him about the time frame I had because I got a travel broad hearing coming up.

He seems to be a more people person doctor than just some doctor whom wants to get you in and out. I just dont want to be turn down again Bro's

I mean, I know that I had no pain prior to service that had to do with my back. I did have leg pain and it was said I had these two back dianosis. But I didnt have trouble or pain until i went in the military on 3 set of clearly, documented times while in basic. And the only reason I didnt ask to get out of the serive is because I truly just thought it was pain from using body parts that I didnt use in a while but found out as I got older that its more serious than I thought. I couldnt get a job that was on the permantent because of this because I was told that I had a disablity which was no running or lifting(which later i got a modification on that because I had to lift and maybe run some point in my life).

It sounds to me like they have down played the significance of the pre service condition. I do not think this is a big problem. The problem is when the doctor changed from "at least likely as not" to "less likely than not". This statement was in reference to the military profile being related to the current condition. This is the real issue in service connection.

Do you have the original report showing "at least likely as not"? How was the doctor prodded to change? Was another C&P exam scheduled? Did the doctor state that he made an error on the first statement to "at least likely as not. Or, did they get a second medical opinion?