Agent Orange Question

[goofycow]

This may sound like a really dopey question but here goes. How was ao applied? Which branch of the service actually did it? Was it from Army helecopers, Navy planes??? The reason I ask is because my husband was on an aircraft carrier right off the coast. If navy planes dropped the ao, how can VA deny that anyone to not actually set foot on the ground in country could contact ao? Just wondering how this stuff was delivered & who delivered it.

Liz

[Stretch]

When the honorable Sec. of VA gets fired he will get his "boots on the ground". It won't take much longer for this gentleman to retire. He seems to be suffering from some dementia, kind-of-like the Wizard of Oz. AO will then be a matter of presumptive exposure and not what you wear on your feet.

I think that the presumptive list will eventually include other lung conditions (COPD, Asthma), as well as other neurological conditions which have been omitted.

[Chuck75]

The only "automatic" AO connection for aircraft carrier crew that I'm aware of is for the helio pilots. No mention was made of the helio crewmembers. (after all, they are enlisted)

Aircraft engaging in low level operations may have flown thru AO clouds. You would expect this to be quite rare.

To the best of my knowledge, aircraft from carriers did not spray AO. It was sprayed from transport A/C such as the 130, and from vietnam based helicopters. Army and AF aircraft did the spraying as far as I know.

The VA tries to disregard the Vietnam Service medal (the "feet on ground" bit) and can also ignore the gallantry cross, since virtually everyone serving in Vietnam was awarded the cross, and it's a foreign award anyway.

I have a similar problem with proving "combat veteran" status. My units were awarded Navy and Metorious commendations as well as combat ribbons. None of which were entered on my DD214. I have copies of the NUC and MUC, but no details of the combat ribbons, other than the award dates. At least one of the citations mentions "under combat conditions" involving "hostile fire". The combat ribbon is an odd one since it is classed as an individual award, yet was given to the entire command. (Mobile Riverene Force, TF117, December 1967)

I don't expect to see additions to the "presumptive" list anytime soon. The "Ranch Hand" study data is the only data collection of note, and shows that heart problems are even more of a concern among AO exposed Vets than Diabetes (by 2%) The VA and the government have both known this for years, yet the VA is still trying to say (when it can) that the heart problems are not connected to AO.

This may sound like a really dopey question but here goes. How was ao applied? Which branch of the service actually did it? Was it from Army helecopers, Navy planes??? The reason I ask is because my husband was on an aircraft carrier right off the coast. If navy planes dropped the ao, how can VA deny that anyone to not actually set foot on the ground in country could contact ao? Just wondering how this stuff was delivered & who delivered it.

Liz

Edited June 23, 2007 by Chuck75

[JohnM]

Trying to get the Goverment to admitt to this is going to be hard. But here it goes: Anyone on A/c carrieries where exposed continually to P.O.L.'s from heavy fuels to JP also solvents. This is bound to effect the amuine system. However, the Navy and VA will never admitt this, for fear of lidigation.

Example: Camp Legune Water Contimunation. Only certain people stationed there when this occured where notified. On carriers I do not believe it was AO but the continual exposure to toxic fuels and solvents.

JohnM

[Berta]

Chuck- you can get your DD 214 corrected with a DD 149 form- I will attach it.

The VA also will send you any decorations or medals you might not have- the Vietnamese ones have to be purchased on line or at a base BX,PX.

Just put Not Applicable regarding the "injustice" stuff.

I think many veterans are missing the significance of the Haas decision.

Although these claims (Blue Water claims filed after the moratorium)are still within the moratorium and more claims will be filed from Blue Water veterans- remember you have the best of the best on your side-NVLSP- and the many vets orgs out there that are pushing for Haas to become Law of the Land permanently.

When Haas becomes law again-and I am optimistic yet one never knows-

all Blue Water vets who served during the Vietnam War in the waters off Vietnam-

will be presumptively considered exposed to Agent Orange.

Jim- regarding the widow---

I said enhanced DIC- but I erred and I meant the Hypothetical entitlement under 1318 for DIC-

if the vet was 100% SC P & T for ten years -hypothetically the VA will grant DIC regardless of cause of death.

I added if up and dont see the basis for 1318 here- but obviously she does get DIC. Dont know why?

The widow needs to obtain the veterans VA med recs before filing anything-

she should request them ASAP as the VA will not release them if she files 1151 or FTCA.

I see two aspects of this potential new claim:

The vet fell out of bed in a VAMC-not a basis for negligence-it happens often-

the veteran sustained injury due to the fall- a definite basis for FTCA and/or 1151.

Only an autopsy or independent medical opinion could determine whether the fall sustained caused enough in jury to ultimately cause his death within a few days after it.

His condition prior to his death is critical in determining if he did in fact die due to negligence.

"He was terminal and was going to be moved from the ward to hospice."

I can guarantee that one defensive maneuver the OGC will use is that the veteran was terminal so his death was predictable and a foreseen event due to his medical condition.

That does not mean the VA did not commit malpractice.

But that is a difficult defense to overcome unless the widow gets an independent medical opinion, assessing all the med recs, to show that the VA "Hastened" his death- whether he was terminal or not.

Why did she wait so long to consider wrongful death?

The FTCA clock is ticking so best that she ask for all of his VA med recs ASAP and hope they come before her SOL date is up.

[Berta]

PS forgot - attached is the DD 149

Also I will post a new topic with a few more statements re: Haas- so maybe it can be found under this search- as I posted a lot here already- guess it cannot be found-

dd0149.pdf

[Berta]

"trauma from the Vietnam War."

That is a new one to me if it is on a death certificate.

If a VA doctor stated that on the DC and signed it- no wonder she got DIC.

The only benefit- if the VA was negligent -and they probably werent- is that she could sue for money- and if she didnt want to settle-she could go into federal court and try to get more-

if she did settle, they would deduct the amount from her future DIC-

If she is a good investor she can re-coup the loss of offset amount with investments.

Unless an autopsy was done and this and the last med recs show clear evidence of death caused by the injuries from the fall (possible)

then she would have cause of action under FTCA.

Lawyers a decade ago told me I had no basis for FTCA death claim against the VA.

As you know I filed it all myself and did all the work-

it meant they lost a great fee-and I got all the settlement-

I do know what you mean- BUT- even as we speak there might be a malpractice lawyer google ad here at hadit-

these ads pop up depending on our posts-

there are plenty of malpractice lawyers out there-

they could not advertise a decade ago but now they can and we probably have a list of them here at hadit-

I dont see "retro" at all on this claim.

If it was a Nehmer issue that would be different.

I suggest that when she gets the med recs she should contact a lawyer with malpractice expertise-

there are plenty of them.

I am even wondering if in fact she did get DIC due to Sec 1151 and maybe does not realise that.

I even have envisioned an interesting scenario- VA pronouces dead and makes sure the DC states what you said (VERY unusual)

then VA grants DIC due to SC death- knowing it was the fall that hastened the veterans death.

A clock and dagger cover up? no VA doesnt do that.

The hell they dont- my claims are living proof that this scenario can occur.

Last time I spoke to Regional counsel I said the past FTCA was that the VA admitted to causing Rod's death -and my new AO claim is because I know now how they 'covered up' malpractice and now I know how they did it.And what they really covered up- I didnt know what that was when I settled with the OGC.

Again- I believe malpractice is an isolated event and happens in private hospitals as much as in the VA.

Doctors and nurses can be overworked or undertrained- who knows why-

I really dont think VA malpractices much at all.

Then again- in Rod's case they almost got away with causing his death.No one would have ever known.

But they (VA) didnt know me.

Edited June 23, 2007 by Berta