Presumptive Period

[Steppenwolf]

During my exit exam the doctor ( i knew this doctor better than most vets know the exit exam doctors ) told me that i had a mild case of prostatitis. He told me that if he wrote down that i had prostatitis that i wouldn't get out of the service on my due date. He went on to say that they will not release me until the problem cleared and that this kind of problem can persist a long time. He advised me to go to a VA hospital as soon as I got out; that i had a year to discover it and other problems that would be the same as if i was still in the army. He called it a presumptive period. He then Rx' some antibiotics and sulfer meds for me "for a cold" so the meds would work on the prostatitis and i could get my european discharge. i liked this doctor and thought his advice was good.

Sure enough i went to a VA hospital after returning to the states and was Dx'd with what was no a sever case of the condition. That VA in Miami Rx'd a major dose of antibiotics which i had an allergic reaction to. The Miami VA was too far to travel back to since i was in terrible pain, my liver was swolling and i was throwing up and faint. i went to my parents doctor who wanted to put me in the hospital immediately. i told him that i didn't have medical insurance and that i needed to use the VA. He called the VA and spoke with the urologist who treated me and told him that in his opinion i need to be hospitlaized and checked out for hepatits while i was in the hospital. They agreed on the phone but by the time i got back to my parents house the VA had called and asked me to call them back. The doctor asked about the color of my stool and a few other questions then suggested that i simpley stop taking the meds and drink lots of cranberry juice. If i didn't feel better in a couple of days to have someone drive me in.

Of course very little of this "conversation" can be proven. To make matters worse the Miami VA convieniantly lost my records and with in a month the doctor who saw me was gone. The other urologist who saw me didn't recall anything.

All of this happened with-in 3 months of ETSing.

What i have is a limited copy of my records from the VA that they gave me while i was there, and appointment card that was stamped, a post card notifying me of my follow up appointment and the private doctors records.

i have heard conflicting interpretations about this so called "prsumptive period" and how it works. It seems that my friend the exiting exam doctor may have been wrong about "being the same as if you were dx'd in the service" but i am not sure.

i have a few other questions about the private doctors records and 5 letters that he wrote for me over the years that i should probably post seperatly.

Thanks for your feedback

[Berta]

The criteria for presumptive conditions is here under a search- also see 38 USCS, 301, or 38 CFR 3.307-3.307 3.311,3.313-

not long ago I posted the whole 9 yeards-

Legal presumption info from NVLSP-, chronic diease presumption, tropical disease presumption, criteria for former POWs and also Atmois vets (radiation) presumption.

Legal presumption only involves the chronic diseases listed in the regs as well as the date limits-and they must have manifested at 10% disabiling -by medical evidence-to be considered presumptive.

Unless the veteran can prove that any condition not on this list was 10% disabling within the presumptive period and the documented nexus of proof of the disability was within their service period.

I met a vet with over a decade in trying for presumptive SC-

the nexus was found and established and supported by a IMO doctor- with lots of expertise in his filed.

The vet finally succeeded and got years of retro.

It took a great deal of time for me to find the nexus in his SMRs.

But when I did -it altered everything.

SMrs are often illegible and hard to read- I blow them up on a scanner, use a mirror, and other sorts of ways to decifer them.

If the evidence is in them- it will be found.

[john999]

I think getting the problem DX'ed in service is much better than waiting until you get out and then going to the VA. If you are diagnosed in service it is right their in your SMR's and their can be no debate about origins. When I got back from Vietnam the military was telling us the same old song and thousands of vets probably lost out on SC because their SMR's are "silent" on their condition. The thing to do is get it DX'ed in service and then go directly to the VA and file a claim during the one year period. Documentation is what gets these claims accepted.

[recruiterrick]

as i noted before, people leaving the military now are required to talk to a vso rep. i have not had any problems with the va because all of my disabilities were based on my medical records when i retired.

i was originally rated at 30% for dysthymic disorder and 5 years later raised to 100% p&t based only on my smr's and va exams.

[Steppenwolf]

I know the story was lengthy but the meat of my question was not about presumptive conditions but presumptive period which i have heard to be 6 months, 1 year, and not at all.

Is there such a thing as a presumptive period?

The criteria for presumptive conditions is here under a search- also see 38 USCS, 301, or 38 CFR 3.307-3.307 3.311,3.313-

not long ago I posted the whole 9 yeards-

Legal presumption info from NVLSP-, chronic diease presumption, tropical disease presumption, criteria for former POWs and also Atmois vets (radiation) presumption.

Legal presumption only involves the chronic diseases listed in the regs as well as the date limits-and they must have manifested at 10% disabiling -by medical evidence-to be considered presumptive.

Unless the veteran can prove that any condition not on this list was 10% disabling within the presumptive period and the documented nexus of proof of the disability was within their service period.

I met a vet with over a decade in trying for presumptive SC-

the nexus was found and established and supported by a IMO doctor- with lots of expertise in his filed.

The vet finally succeeded and got years of retro.

It took a great deal of time for me to find the nexus in his SMRs.

But when I did -it altered everything.

SMrs are often illegible and hard to read- I blow them up on a scanner, use a mirror, and other sorts of ways to decifer them.

If the evidence is in them- it will be found.

Edited June 26, 2007 by Steppenwolf

[Berta]

The presumptive PERIOD is found within the regs I cited-

The "length of the presumptive period varies" for different conditions (NVLSP)as well as for "certain groups of veterans."

Most chronics are one year presumptive- meaning manifested to degree of 10% disabling within one year after discharge-

others are diffferent- Multiple Sclerosis is 7 years, Tuberculosis is 3 years, etc.

It is all in the regs I cited.

[Steppenwolf]

Thanks Berta, Once again the info given to me by several people including the exit exam doctor was that there existed a "presumptive period" of one year for anything that might develope after discharge. I have 2 chronic problems: back and prostrate. Back troubles occured while on active duty and are mentioned several times in my records although it was chronically called acute. ( had a constant supply of pain meds over three years ) The prostrate was never mentioned in my military records but was discovered and named chronic by the VA med center with in the first six months after discharge.

i found the exit exam doctor who currently has a practice in Puerto Rico. Will a statement from him help now?

So i take it by mentioning the reg(s) number that if i want to read up on them and see if i can get them to fit my case i can do that. And that IS a good thing to have regs and cases that one can read to understand how the law applies to them. Speaking for myself but guessing that i am not the only one experiencing this problem but i have lost several girlfriends, and a few family members who think i spend too much timme "obsessing" over legal matters that i should leave it up to those who's profession it is to know the law and these things and let them help me. Sadly i discover when i read the laws and regs that the people i have depended on usually know less than i do after studying said regs. This has resulted in zero for me and maybe even less since i lose my relationships and the people who's job it is to know don't like someone who may know more than them.

[ On a matter concerning my house burning down i found out that i was denied an appeal for a reduction in property tax based on a law that i was told existed to prevent ghetto landlords from leaving burned buildings derelict. i asked my attorney of 20 years if he could find me that law so i could read it he got angry with me and told me to let it go. He finally got the law book out and read it to me condesendingly ( like i was a child who needed to understand why i was being punished ) as he was reading i quickly saw the flaw but he read on and on....finally when he took a breath i asked if he was finished and pointed out that the law did not apply. In the first sentence it stated: "In buildings that are burned beyond repair...." My house was determined to be "repairable". Plus there was yet another unique aspect to my story ( like me and my whole life ) the property is zoned "general commercial" when i purchased the property residental was allowed. It is no longer allowed. The house can not be torn down for rebuilding. There is another law that says i must retain one wall of the original structure in order to keep the residental zoning statis. If it burned to the ground i would need to appear before a "special exception hearing" for approval to rebuild. i needed a statement from the town that i could rebuild incase fire totally destroyed the property. SO hear i am once again being unique and "special" but not in a way that serves me well.

My point being that in a way i now totally get your statement about "we are all advocates here". When we are put in the position to read and know every aspect of the VA laws at least as they apply to us, we do it because it helps us to know all aspects of the laws and how they apply.

Is it any wonder that my friends and family think that i am obssessed and bordering on possessed?

We really shouldn't have to know the laws like this.

"Sometimes i grow so tired"

The presumptive PERIOD is found within the regs I cited-

The "length of the presumptive period varies" for different conditions (NVLSP)as well as for "certain groups of veterans."

Most chronics are one year presumptive- meaning manifested to degree of 10% disabling within one year after discharge-

others are diffferent- Multiple Sclerosis is 7 years, Tuberculosis is 3 years, etc.

It is all in the regs I cited.

Edited June 27, 2007 by Steppenwolf