Udorn Thailand Presumptive Approved .........yes

[jcolwell]

This was the first group I wanted to share great new with. Several of you know of the struggle of the Thailand veteran to get recognized for herbicide exposure by VA.

Today my husband got 20 % approval for something, we are pretty sure it is DM2. He will get retro for one year. Claim filed 10/2012.This claim was being pushed to complete by Oct 1.

He got this because he was a perimeter guard in Udorn in 1970 for USAF. He job was jet engine mechanic but they pulled him for 30days to be a tower guard. He had nothing in his file to support this claim. However the VSPA had him listed on their website as a augmentee and we also lucked out and located a former colonel who signed his evaluation in 1970 and he provided written letter that he frequently sent guys to the perimeter to help out in 1970.

Here is the Icing: He is still in a 2 year appeal post DRO interview for IHD, GERD and Renal disease. They originally denied his IHD but with DM2 approved as presumptive we expect the others will follow suit.

You guys have allways been supportive in your comments and it made this easier. Will keep you posted.

Jc

[free_spirit_etc]

It looks like they do have to at least develop the evidence.

http://www.va.gov/vetapp13/Files1/1300594.txt

"The provisions of the VA Adjudication Procedure Manual, M21-1MR provide the specific steps necessary in verifying herbicide exposure on a factual basis in locations other than the Republic of Vietnam. Specifically, Part IV, subpart ii.2.C.10.o. states that if a veteran alleges exposure in other locations, the RO must ask the veteran for the approximate dates, location, and nature of the alleged exposure. See VA Manual M21-1MR, Part IV, subpart ii, 2.C.10.o. If such information is received, the RO must furnish the Veteran's detailed description of exposure to Compensation Service via e-mail at VAVBAWAS/CO/211/AGENTORANGE, and request a review of the DoD's inventory of herbicide operations to determine whether herbicides were used as alleged. Id. If the Compensation Service's review does not confirm that herbicides were used as alleged, the RO must refer the case to the U.S. Army and Joint Services Records Research Center ("JSRRC") coordinator to make a formal finding that sufficient information required to verify herbicides exposure does not exist. Id."

Edited September 29, 2013 by free_spirit_etc

[Berta]

Harleyman....I discussed this with Kurt Priessman (the very first AO Thailand veteran) and we determined some time ago that Thailand vets do not fall under the Nehmer criteria as to favorable EEDs,because Nehmer focused on Vietnam in country service.

Of course a stop over in the Nam, even just a refueling pit stop and/ or visit to a head on a base in Vietnam, is ":boots on the ground" that some Thailand vets forgot they had done, and then checking their records ,they found they in fact had "visitation" in country....even if just for a short period of time.

Our discussions however were quite some time ago. Let me double check Nehmer 2010 for that...and also I can double check with Nehmer NVLSP Lawyer Rick Spataro.....better yet maybe I should call Kurt.......as soon as I get some time later....

You made a Great point. I try to update the Korea AO regs here as well as Thailand and I think our info is current but VA will post any changes at their web site and also they (VA) have been good about posting the Ships list updates.

Those updates have primarily come from info from Blue Waters themselves, explaining to VA in claims , where their ships were in the Pacific during the war.

Brown Waters ,unlike Blue Waters, shoudn't have problems with any AO claim but I had a doozy of one with a vet here about 8 years ago.....

It was a proposed reduction.....for a 100% SC P & T AO disability and his college age kids were eligible for Chap 35, with one ready for their first semester and the VA suddenly sent him the proposal to reduce due to no boots on ground.!!!!!! stress up the ying yangs.

We put our heads together and the VA revoked the proposal!!

As we talked about his service,(and we went off on many tangents talking about Vietnam) trying to see how he could present a good argument at the hearing, he casually mentioned that one time he had helped a Vietnamese officer into the boat or sampan in a brown water tributary, to take him to the main ship.

I said Say What???? How did you help him get into the boat, ,,,,,,didn't you need to put your foot (boot) on the bank?

He then paused and said" Holy S---T Berta!"

One boot on ground is just as good as two feet on Vietnamese soil!

He proved the above regarding the officer , I think maybe with a buddy statement and collected even more evidence as fast as he could and sent it to the VA.

VA dropped the hearing very quickly and reversed their proposed reduction.(and I sure thanked God a lot! He did too)

Like you said sometimes it only takes one piece of evidence to turn the tide and sometimes, I have found, that a veteran's memories need to be jolted, particularly for stressor places and dates or other events that they might have overlooked, when they first filed their claims.

Edited September 29, 2013 by Berta

[john999]

I wonder if the USA ever used AO in Cambodia and Laos since we had secret wars going on their for years during Vietnam War? They will never admit it unless someone has absolute proof. The average age of RVN vet is probably 65-68 nowdays.

John

[jcolwell]

You stated you have a two year old appeal. When was your husband diagnosed with IHD and when was your original claim filed for these AO related conditions? You could be eligible for an earlier effective date on those issues depending on when he was diagnosed as these conditions would fall under the NEHMER quidelines.

If Berta would chime in on this, as she is the NEHMER expert along with many other issues. :)

I would like to add, KOREA WAR veterans exposure to AO LIST is also ever expanding, based on perimeter guard duty, or military police MOS. Any orders or military records either medical and/or personnel, showing service in either in Thailand and Korea, and a Veterans MOS should be looked at very closely. The VA frequently adds more and more units to the list of exposure to herbicides in these two countries. This list is ever changing, the same as the ships list they add to the RVN list for AO exposure, for the blue water Veterans.

A Veteran's statement of perimeter duty, combined with a buddy statement or supporting MOS, CIB badge,Infantry MOS, etc. and/or confirmation by commandng NCO or COs is enough to get SC for AO conditions, even if the records don't specifically say you stood guard on the perimeter. The benefit of the doubt goes to the Veteran. One piece of supporting evidence may be enough to show exposure.- Harleyman

IHD first diagnosed in 1999. Claim filed 4/2011 when we became aware of new VA regs on AO and Thailand. No claims ever filed at VA till 2011. We just did not know. JC

[harleyman]

JOHN999- There were alot of Veteran's sent to Cambodia and Laos as "advisors", prior to our big involvment in the country of Vietnam. Those Veteran's called "advisors" would be in their mid 70's some of them. The advisor NCO's that I knew about and some I have met peronally where, NCO's ranked as E-5,6,7s , which made them a bit older than the 1960s guys going into RVN who were 6-7 years their junior in age.

BERTA- Veterans many times overlook important information in their records. Even a letter that thier parents may have saved while they were in the military, my be considered important evidence insupport of a claim. It would be wise for the Veteran to attend an outreach and see if they can hook up with someone who is used to reviewing records to see if they have missed a condition for a potential claim.

Edited September 29, 2013 by harleyman

[john999]

Harleyman

Yes, I have met some older vets who were in Vietnam in 1961-62. I think these advisors were whatever special forces were called at the time. I am thinking of average age of RVN vets. I was 19 years old when I got there in 1970 so I am at the younger part of the curve. Largest number of vets were there in 67-69, so figure they are probably 65-66. USA began to withdraw after TET 1968. I could google that and probably get an answer. Vast majority of RVN vets were young men, but I know there were career soldiers there for multiple tours. I am sure there will be plenty of RVN vets who live into their 90's or even older. WW11 vet obits are usually for guys 88-90 something these days. 20 years old in 1945 would make a vet about 88. I check obits for Nam vets and most are in mid to late 60's. Yes, I need a life.

John