Line of Duty Determinations

[chazzster]

Long story short, by the grace of God, my injuries were rather limited while I was in the military and next to nill while I was active duty. I did injure myself while I was in the National Guard, however, apparently, my NG unit completely screwed up my LOD and apparently didn't follow the proper protocol and get it done within the correct time frame. This is tragic in that I did sustain some injuries in that incident. My VSO said that he had heard that the VA can conduct their own Line of Duty investigations. He said it would be akin to them doing their own character of discharge investigations. However, he was unsure of how to initiate it and the other people that he asked did not seem to know either.  Is anyone on here aware of whether or not such a thing exists, and if so, how to get the ball rolling on such a thing? Gratitude. 

[Berta]

" My VSO said that he had heard that the VA can conduct their own Line of Duty investigations. He said it would be akin to them doing their own character of discharge investigations. However, he was unsure of how to initiate it and the other people that he asked did not seem to know either.  Is anyone on here aware of whether or not such a thing exists, and if so, how to get the ball rolling on such a thing? "

I have never heard of VA doing a LOD -however the Character of Discharge process can involve aspects of a veteran's situation  including their military LOD, that might end up  provide them benefits-

Does he (the VSO) know how to help you file for a Character of Discharge determination?

I will look up the VA LOD stuff, but I feel I will find nothing.

You might want to start googling Character of Discharge, to get info:

https://www.benefits.va.gov/benefits/character_of_discharge.asp

I only helped one  member here years ago with this problem and helped someone else I knew long ago- they both had prior service periods of Honorable service, and re enlisted , and got bad paper.

They both won.HDs for each period of service and full eligibility VA benefits.Those types of Character of Service Determinations are the easiest ones to succeed in.

You also might want to review these types of claims at the BVA.

There are 2093 Character of Discharge claims there in 2017- 2018. It might help you determine what evidence you will need.

 

https://www.index.va.gov/search/va/bva_search.jsp?QT=Character+of+Discharge&EW=&AT=&ET=&RPP=10&DB=2018&DB=2017

 

 

 

 

[broncovet]

If memory serves me right (it does not always!!) Alex posted some time ago that a LOD determination was not appealable when you become a Vet.  If you dispute the LOD determination while in the military, you would need to deal with it there, but this is largely a judgement call made by your doctor, who puts it in your file. 

I was injured in service (fractured leg) and my doctor placed in my file "not due to (my) own willfull misconduct".  Had he gone the other way, things may not have gone so well for me, even tho my current disabilites have little to do with the in service fracture.  

Frankly, my LOD could have gone the other way.  Four of my friends were playing a joke on me, and threw me in a huge box, and when I landed, I fractured my leg.  I explained this to the doctor, but I declined to name the friends because, well I had played jokes on them in the past also, so I was not Mr. Innocence in this all.  However, none of the jokes I played on them resulted in injuries, either.  It was a freak accident...I had done things much more likely to break bones simply following orders in service, but none of those resulted in injury.  

     I simply had no choices...my buddies each grabbed an arm and a leg and threw me.  It wasnt like I was intoxicated or anything like that.  My experience has been if you are intoxicated..and get injured in service..they usually say its your own fault.  That is, its "due to willfull misconduct".   

      My son was in the Army, and he explained to me (not to others!!!) that one of his buddies deaths was a result of "horsing around".  He did not say if that was LOD or not, I suspect it was considered LOD as nobody wanted to talk about it.  

      Whenever someone does get killed in the military, there is a reasonable chance that someone did something wrong, or, at least made a poor choice.  There is a lot of pressure on you...you have to make split second decisions and not every one is going to turn out well.  This is particulary true in battle where sometimes you have not had any sleep for 48 hours or more.  

       Generally, I think its wrong for the military to try to "find someone to blame", as I said, other than when someone gets intoxicated and starts doing crazy stuff.  

      Its kind of the same thing if you get into a civilian car accident.  You are at fault if they determine their is alcohol on your breath, even if the sober driver actually caused the accident.  Under the influence your reactions are slower, so there may not have been an accident had you not been drinking.  For those and other reasons I do not drink and drive.  A few years ago, wifey and I went out to dinner, and, I uncharacteristicly ordered 2 drinks.  I asked wifey to drive home, and she complied.  It was much less embarrassing to me to ask my wife to drive than to ask her to go bail me out of jail, or, worse, injure or kill someone.  The choice of having 2 drinks was not the error, its the choice of getting behind the wheel.  However, we often dont make good choices under the influence, so its best to think of this ahead of time.  I have told my wife, "if there is ANY doubt" of my sobriety for her to go ahead and drive.  This means if I have had "one" drink.  Uno.  

        At the motorcycle races one time they had an experiment with professional motorcycle racers.  They had them run a course of driving through cones, a course which was not all that challenging for the pros.  Then they gave each "one" 12 ounce beer and asked them if they thought they could do the course again.  All said, "yes, are you kidding? I only had one..it makes no difference".  Then they had them do the course.  NOT ONE could go through the cones and not knock one over with ONE beer.  NOT ONE.  But all thought they could.  By the way, their alcohol level was way below legal limits with one beer.  It takes about 2 to be illegal in my state.  So they were all "legally" sober.  

      I mention this because we need to "not rely on our own judgement" as to "can you drive ok?"  Just dont drive if you have had even one.  Simple.  

      My older brother was forced to put a device on his car that he had to blow into, which prevented the vehicle from starting if his blood alcohol content was over the limit.  (He fully deserved this).  

       Sure enough, he could not start his car one night, so he pays a stranger 20 bucks to blow into the device for him so he can start the car.  Boy was that a poor choice.  I think he made it home but I dont know how.  

[john999]

Towards the end of the Vietnam war there were hundreds if not thousands of drug addicted vets who became addicted in Vietnam.  At first the military tried to treat the soldiers.  Then they decided it was cheaper to just give them bad conduct discharges.  I think their addiction problems were not service connected at that time.  They probably never would have become addicted if they were serving stateside.  Cheaper to blame the victims.  I think the military still treats drug addiction as misconduct.  This is medieval in thinking.

[Berta]

I researched in the 2018 edition of the VBM by NVLSP and there is nothing there to support what your VSO said as to VA doing LODS.

You need first to apply to the DRB -here is the app- if you are still eligible within the 15 year timeframe.Your VSO would know if you should do that first.

https://www.vetsprobono.org/library/attachment.312763

If not you can apply directly to the BCMR.

And If you fit into this criteria:

https://www.nvlsp.org/what-we-do/lawyers-serving-warriors/board-for-correction-of-military-records-bcmr/

"Lawyers serving Warriors" can help.

You also need to file a DD 149 and that form is here:

https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/requesting-corrections-veterans-military-records-from-the-bcmr-drb.html

Your VSO should be able to help with those forms.

[Berta]

Great point John- and the Hagel Memo has helped many of them.In some cases Allen V Principi has helped as well.

We do not have much info from this vet who got bad paper- and we dont erven know what kind of dicharge he got.

A LOD is not technically binding on the VA, but they will consider all of the  facts and evidence of the case.

There is a lot to this type of issue.VA Character determinations that are negative can be appealed to the BVA and to CAVC.

 

 

[Berta]

"Generally, in order to receive VA benefits and services,  the Veteran’s character of discharge or service must be under other than dishonorable conditions (e.g., honorable, under honorable conditions, general).  However, individuals receiving undesirable, bad conduct, and other types of dishonorable discharges may qualify for VA benefits depending on a determination made by VA. "

https://www.benefits.va.gov/benefits/character_of_discharge.asp

Chazzster- have you already applied for VA comp , yet were denied due to the discharge?

Was the LOD actually based on an inservice injury?