VA Drug Screen

[Grumpbox]

I’m sure this question will raise many opinions/responses, but I will go on post for any feedback. Also, I was unsure where to post this, topic-wise.

 

Questions:

1. What is considered “Consent” for a drug screen through the VA?

2. Is the VA (and any type of employee though the VA) required to obtain consent for a drug screen?

3. What are the forms of consent?  Written, “iMedConsent,” and/or telephonic—when recorded and not recorded with VA witness? 

Situational question to stir the research:

If a Veteran gets called in for an annual blood/urine test, and VA employee making the call describes these tests as ‘routine,’ thereby confirming time and place with Veteran telephonically - does this constitute “Consent” for anything the VA wants to test you for? 

The most information I can find for this is found here:

 

 

There is much talk talk about the 4th and 5th Amendment vs how the VA does what they want and when they want, disregarding policy outlined to follow.

 

I am just seeking input from those with more knowledge in this area.

 

Thank you greatly to anyone that jumps in for discussion!!

 

Grumpbox...

[Grumpbox]

1 hour ago, GeekySquid said:

that document has an expiration date in 2014, so there is an update somewhere.

My question is what is motivating your interest in getting informed consent.

In my experience with VAMC and blood draws, I always ask exactly what they are testing for, and when I get medical jargon i make them explain and take notes. I look up the tests they say they are making and validate the responses I get from the Dr.

I have turned down tests when they failed to make it clear what they are testing for.

I have no problem with them testing for standard batteries like HIV and Hep when they do other blood tests like they recently did for my pituitary function.

What I do object to, and this is a personal thing and kind of complicated, is the collection of DNA for genome mapping. The VA has a program running to get volunteers for a 1 million veteran samples.

While their literature makes this sound noble, there is For-Profit motive in their partners in this data collection (which they keep really quiet about) and I object to people making money off my info without my consent and without getting paid what I would consider a fair share of any new drug or treatment that comes from that data.

I don't like my email and phone number "being sold" or my credit rating, address, etc, so you might imagine that the most personal, unique part of myself being sold/traded/used by anonymous strangers gets under my skin.

I don't mind that law enforcement and government has my DNA, fingerprints etc. I do mind if it is used for some random company to make a profit from.

Once you give informed consent you lose any control, input or profit from what you have given away. I don't care for that situation. It is my private information and if anyone deserves to make a profit from it, it is me.

Just my opinion.

 

@GeekySquid

YES!  It’s out of date!  I sent the wrong one. Here’s the latest and greatest:

https://www.ethics.va.gov/docs/policy/1004_01_HK_20090814rev2.pdf

Why?  All the same reasons you do.  You ask to be clear and if a shady response is given, you can walk.  It’s a simple policy to follow at the VA; it’s not an option one can decide they will or will not follow on even days.  

I had to follow the regulations, DA Pam’s, DOD, FM, etc., but when the VA is in charge, they get to pick and choose. Well, that’s just not right. 

 

GB

[GeekySquid]

17 minutes ago, paulstrgn said:

guess I am too old, I think this DNA stuff is for the birds...I know good can come from it but for me its crazy. 

I am all for creating person specific treatments from their DNA, I just object having my info sold to others and me having no say over it or profit from it. There are jackasses out there trying to patent human genes and that to me is theft of my unique personal property for their own illicit profit.

I want my cut damn it if my genes create a new drug or treatment.

[paulstrgn]

I am sure that drug test are done on a lot of vets either through military medical facilities or VA ones, we just don't know about it. 

I guess my question would be what if they discovered a vet using illegal drugs? Can they do anything to them other than not give them pain killers?

I am probably just being naive though...JMO

1 minute ago, GeekySquid said:

I want my cut damn it if my genes create a new drug or treatment.

I am with you buddy, give me my share.

[GeekySquid]

17 minutes ago, Grumpbox said:

Without one’s consent (that is: not knowing the test), is a violation of the 5th Amendment. It’s self-crimination.

that would be very incident and context specific. It certainly could be, but as a broad stroke statement it would be hard to get SCOTUS to agree with your interpretation.

[GeekySquid]

7 minutes ago, Grumpbox said:

but when the VA is in charge, they get to pick and choose. Well, that’s just not right. 

conceptually I agree with that last sentence.

[GeekySquid]

11 minutes ago, Grumpbox said:

https://www.ethics.va.gov/docs/policy/1004_01_HK_20090814rev2.pdf

the Scope section pages 3 & 4, seem to address your issue head on. There are exceptions and I don't have the time to dig into that doc further but will read when I have more time.

Essentially the VA is supposed to tell you why a test is being done, what for, and you can refuse. You may not get the care you request, but if you refuse the test that places the burden on you.

Dr's rely on tests to rule things in and out and cannot be held liable if you refuse to cooperate with those tests.

For example I have Empty Sella Syndrome which amounts to the bony protection around my pituitary being crushed. when that happens the pituitary can stop functioning the right way. It is the Master Gland in the human body.

Testing and Autopsy are the only way to know if your pituitary is working properly.

I prefer testing as autopsies are permanent.

Another example is that I have had Hep vaccines in the past. I just found out my record only shows Hep C instead of A, B and C or any of the variants. I am taking those now but only a blood test triggered the doc looking to see if the others were actually done and I certainly was led to believe (in the past) that I had them all.

I am not sure what your objection to finding out if you have things blood tests would show, but that is your business.

HIV however is a different story. It is a crime in several states to willingly spread HIV and deliberately avoiding knowing you have it has been used in court as evidence of "prior knowledge".

I for one don't think any individual has the right to infect another person with a sexually transmitted disease (of any sort) and the courts tend to agree with me.