Josephine!

[free_spirit_etc]

OMG! Recently I told you it shouldn't matter if they label your condition a personality disorder - because you should be allowed the presumption of soundness and the presumption of aggravation.

CHECK THAT OUT VERY THROUGHLY!!!

I ran across this when I was looking up ratings. It looks as though they DO NOT give compensation for personality disorders UNLESS you can show they were CAUSED by a service connected disease or injury. So it doesn't look like they grant the presumption of soundness or aggravation IF your DIAGNOSIS is a personality disorder. And I doubt they will say an in service injury CAUSED a personality disorder. And it doesn't look like they grant benefits for aggravation on them.

Basically, I am not certain what I am talking about - so check it out. But I just wanted to give you a heads up to watch out for this.

§ 4.127 Mental retardation and personality disorders.

Mental retardation and personality disorders are not diseases or injuries for compensation purposes, and, except as provided in §3.310(a) of this chapter, disability resulting from them may not be service-connected. However, disability resulting from a mental disorder that is superimposed upon mental retardation or a personality disorder may be service-connected.

§3.310 Disabilities that are proximately due to, or aggravated by, service-connected disease

or injury.

(a) General. Except as provided in §3.300©, disability which is proximately due to or the result of a service-connected disease or injury shall be service connected. When service connection is thus established for a secondary condition, the secondary condition shall be considered a part of the original condition.

FREE

[john999]

Free

Neither the VA or military gives compensation for personality disorders. That is why they diagnose them so often. The definition of a PD is that it is a constitutional defect and not an illness. You can have a mental illness supreimposed on a PD. During the bad old days after Vietnam I bet most PTSD cases were diagnosed as being PD's. This is just a dirty way to deny compensation. Once a vet has the PD diagnosis it will hang around his/her neck forever even if other valid mental illnesses are found.

[Berta]

My former vet rep had a friend with a PD on his POA and even asked me to try to get it service connected-as PTSD.

My first suggestion was that the vet get a real mental health assessment done by a real doctor- an independent psychiatrist- with the full battery of psyche tests that rule in or out PD.

Of course the claim hac been denied many times.

The vet said he could not afford that so I went through all of his med recs and SMRs and all personnel records and talked to the vet at length.

For every suggestion I made he had an excuse not to do it-

even notations in his SMRs regarding another potential way to get SC-he refused to consider. He would not contact his unit nor try to get a buddy statement.

After the frustration of giving him my best suggestions, I realised this vet did have a personality disorder.

The rep actually filed another PD claim for him stating it a different way- and even the rep thought there was someway to get the PD service connected.

This is the same rep who messed up my claim -denying they even represented me whwen I raised hell- I think the vet rep too has a personality disorder.

BUT many vets have service connectable mental disorders and as John said the PD diagnosis stimatizes the claim-

we have said it here many times- with a PD diagnosis-and without combat stressors that would indicate PTSD and not PD-only a real independent psychiatrist- performing multiple shrink tests- can medically rule in or rule out a PD diagnosis.

I bet the mil is still labeling the PD on newly returning veterans-who have PTSD-

But these days are not the days of Vietnam and these new veterans do have better ways to combat those erroneous diagnoses.

Edited June 13, 2007 by Berta

[71M10]

It is unfortunate that the military subverts the intent of its regulations. As I understood it (19 years ago), the chapter section in AR??? that addressed personality disorders was there to provide a way to discharge individuals who could not adapt to military life. It is now being used (by some, not all) as a way to move non-functional soldiers (many with PTSD) out of the military without the need for a messy/costly PEB. The mental health professionals and commanders that are engaging in this activity should be out and maybe just maybe they should be discharged under the provisions for a personality disorder. B)

[Josephine]

Guys and Gals,

I appreciate all of your comments. I was never to my knowledge discharged with a personality disorder. Is a discharge of " unsuitability" a personaltiy disorder?

Was the drug Librium ( tranguilsher) used in service to treat a Personality Disorder? Does anyone know.

In plain simple English - What is a Personality Disorder? Please no medical terms?

I find it so strange my first C&P doctor did not find a trace of a Personality Disorder.

I also find it strange that my doctor of 30 years ( Now ) has not noticed one. That is quite a long time to see the same doctor every 4 to 6 months.

Actually the first person to hand me that bottle of Librium also graduated from Harvard and just happen to be my military treating doctor.

He was no dumb bunny either or he would not be with the Mayo Clinic in Minnn.

The VA can knock me down all they want too, but I am not so sure that they will get around him. As some have posted. This doctor is alive and he saw it all and treated it all.

The VA has turned me into a Lunatic Now. One more C&P and I will be insane.

Thanks,

Josephine

[71M10]

The Army regulation that addresses this practice is AR635-200. Chapter 5-13 addresses personality disorders. If you search for AR635-200 under google youll find it straigt away. This is Army specific however.

[free_spirit_etc]

Josephine,

I am SO glad you read the post. Because I had given you innacurate advice before. I had told you if they wanted to call it a PD - that still wouldn't bar you reciving SC IF it was aggravated - and you had some pretty good proof it was aggravated.

So when I read that last night - how they DON'T cover PD - I thought OMG!!!! I have to get ahold of Josephine BEFORE she takes my advice.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personality_disorder

Personality disorder, formerly known as characterological disorder is a class of mental disorders characterized by rigid and on-going patterns of thought and action, sometimes referred to as "fixed fantasies". Because of the inflexibility and pervasiveness of these patterns, they can cause serious personal and social difficulties, as well as a general impairment of functioning, for individuals suffering from these disorders.

General diagnostic criteria

Diagnosis of a personality disorder, must satisfy these following general criteria, in addition to the specific criteria listed under the specific personality disorder under consideration.

A. Experience and behavior that deviates markedly from the expectations of the individual's culture. This pattern is manifested in two (or more) of the following areas:

[cognition] (perception and interpretation of self, others and events)

affect (the range, intensity, lability, and appropriateness of emotional response)

interpersonal functioning

impulse control

B. The enduring pattern is inflexible and pervasive across a broad range of personal and social situations.

C. The enduring pattern leads to clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning.

D. The pattern is stable and of long duration and its onset can be traced back at least to adolescence or early adulthood.

E. The enduring pattern is not better accounted for as a manifestation or consequence of another mental disorder.

F. The enduring pattern is not due to the direct physiological effects of a substance or a general medical condition such as head injury.

So it looks like they are NOW trying to say that the symptoms you had a discharge were revealing of a personality disorder - which usually do manifest in early adulthood.

I think woman are diagnosed with Pesonality Disorders MUCH more than men. It can be a lazy diagnosis. Remember back in the 70s when so many woman were diagnosed with depression? They told their doctors "It bothers me that my husband drinks all the time and runs around on me.." And the doctor would just say "Oh..you are just DEPRESSED" and put them on valium.

Now - though some people actually DO have personality disorders - it is still very easy for many doctors to just lable them with personality disorders as a way to avoid dealing with the real issues. Borderline Personality Disorder has become one of those "catch all" diagnosis for women who do not act like everyone wants them to act.

You DO have a lot to fight with on this...As you were NEVER diagnosed with a personality disoder until they sent you for a SECOND C&P --AFTER the FIRST C&P examiner gave you a supporting diagnosis.

So yes - it looks like they were trying to get a diagnosis that would bar you from getting benefits.

As you had statements from the doctor who had been treating you for all thses years in support of your claim - and a C&P exam in support of your claim - for them to send you to ANOTHER Doctor - who suddenly decides all the other doctors have been wrong all these years - and that you actually have a personality disorder -- that is just sucky.

Is there another doctor that your treating doctor can send you to - to back your evidence that you do NOT have a personality disorder?

Free

Guys and Gals,

I appreciate all of your comments. I was never to my knowledge discharged with a personality disorder. Is a discharge of " unsuitability" a personaltiy disorder?

Was the drug Librium ( tranguilsher) used in service to treat a Personality Disorder? Does anyone know.

In plain simple English - What is a Personality Disorder? Please no medical terms?

I find it so strange my first C&P doctor did not find a trace of a Personality Disorder.

I also find it strange that my doctor of 30 years ( Now ) has not noticed one. That is quite a long time to see the same doctor every 4 to 6 months.

Actually the first person to hand me that bottle of Librium also graduated from Harvard and just happen to be my military treating doctor.

He was no dumb bunny either or he would not be with the Mayo Clinic in Minnn.

The VA can knock me down all they want too, but I am not so sure that they will get around him. As some have posted. This doctor is alive and he saw it all and treated it all.

The VA has turned me into a Lunatic Now. One more C&P and I will be insane.

Thanks,

Josephine