No Luck On Getting A Copy Of The Discharge Physical

[free_spirit_etc]

IRIS REQUEST:

My husband requested copies of his C-file last year, and made a limited request for a copy of his discharge physical - relying on information that he might be able to get a copy of his discharge physical quicker than he would be able to get the rest of the C-file.

I also requested both after his death.

I understand it takes quite some time to process these requests. However, I would like to see if a copy of his discharge physical can be located and sent to me as soon as possible.

I had an appointment at the VA Friday, July 2007 at 9 am to view my husband's C-file. I had assumed I would be able to at least see and read his dicharge physical on that appointment.

However, we could not locate the discharge physical in his C-file. The Service Medical Records didn't seem to be in any kind of chronological order. I couldn't figure out what kind of order they were in - but I made sure to leave them in the same order as they were in the file. But I looked all through the SMRs and was not able to locate the discharge physical. XXX also helped me look - but could not find it.

I know there was one in his file at some point because a couple of his C&P exam reports reference the discharge physical.

It was pretty disappointing not being able to even see the report that we have been requesting for a year, after driving a 10 hour round trip to do so.

As that was the only paper in the file I was specifically trying to locate, and we could not find it in the SMR's - could someone please locate my husband's discharge physical and send me a copy when they do?

Thank you,

XXX

IRIS RESPONSE:

Dear xxx:

At the time of your visit and review of the claims folder any and all information was in the c file at that time. We have no way of locating a discharge physical for your husband. If he did not submit a discharge physical to us at the time he initially applied for benefits we would not have this information.

You reviewed the entire folder. The document you speak of wasn't there. There is nothing else that we can do. We will send you an application that you may contact the military and they may still have a copy of his discharge physical. But no veteran is required to bring a copy of such or file a discharge physical with the VA upon their discharge from the military.

Thank you for using our website.

Sincerely yours,

xxxx

IRIS REQUEST

Thank you for your response to my inquiry.

My husband went to the base he retired from and got a copy of all of his post service medical records last year. They informed him that his discharge physical would be part of his Service Medical Records, which he had to request from the National Record Center. He submitted a request to the National Record Center last Spring and recieved a reply that they do not have the records as the records are in the possession of the VA. So he sent a request for a copy to the VA.

If the discharge physical is part of his Service Medical Records - and his Service Medical Records are in the possession of the VA, it has been somewhat difficult for him to submit the discharge physical to you, as he has been unable to get a copy of it from you.

The discharge physical must have been in his C-file at one point because a couple of the C&P exams make specific references to something that was said in his discharge physical. My husband recieved his post service medical care from the Military Treatment Center at xxx AFB, not from the VA. So it would seem that the only way the VA C&P physicians would have access to his discharge physical to discuss it in their exams would be if a copy of it would have been in his C-file.

And as the discharge physical is part of my husband's Service Medical Records - which are all supposed to be in the possession of the VA because the VA became the keeper of those records once my husband filed his VA claim, I fail to understand how it was my husband's responsibility to send his discharge physical to the VA in order for them to have it in his file.

I did not have time to go through the entire C-file at the time of my appointment.xxx, who assisted me in viewing the file, showed me where the discharge physical SHOULD have been located in his file. However,it was not in the file where it should have been. Again, the SMRS were not in any particular order in the file. They all appeared to be together, but they were not in any chronological order, some were upside down, some rightside up, etc. which made trying to find something take longer - and I only had one hour to view the file.

xx even checked his dental record file to see if his discharge physical had accidentally been put with them.

It is my understanding that the Separation Discharge Physical my husband recieved upon his retirement from the Air Force would have been part of his Service Medical Records.

It is my understanding that the VA has in its possession all my husband's official Service Medical Records, which means we are now unable to get them from another source as the Va has the original documents.

It is my belief that the VA C&P examiners would have had to have read his discharge physical in order to reference it in their reports.

I find the fact that my husband's discharge physical cannot be located, and nothing can be done about it pretty disturbing.

Thank you,

xxxx

Ms xxx:

We have responded to your inquiry. We have reviewed the claims folder. There is no other information at this time that we can give you. You have reveiwed the claims folder as you requested. The information you want was not there. There is nothing else we can tell you regarding the physical examination report that you want. We can send you a form as indicated and you can send off for the record from the military.

Thank you for using our website.

Sincerely yours,

xxxx

[Josephine]

Free,

I wonder what they may not want you to know? Seems like the most important papers are the ones to disappear.

Josephine

[Wings]

x

x

x

Free, Did you ever recover that Discharge Physical Exam? ~Wings

[free_spirit_etc]

Nope. They just tell me I already have everything that is in hs file.

Heck! I am STILL trying to get the second page of a medical opinion that was used to deny my claim.

The opinion I got is just written on a Report of Contact VA form. No name. No date. Says (Over) at the bottom - but there is NO page 2 in the records.

I am begining to think the discharge physical was NEVER in his file. The C&P's mention that my HUSBAND states he reported such and such at his discharge physical -but they don't DIRECTLY report anything that was on the discharge physical.

The ONLY doctor that refers directly to the discharge physical is the doctor on the lung cancer claim. This is the same doctor who also said my husband had no unique conditions that can be attributed to asbestos (though his post service records mention Interstitial Lung Disease in AT LEAST 30 records, including the pathology report that diagnosed it - this doctor didn't notice ANY of THOSE 30 records - but focused on the emphasematous changes that was reported ONE time - to say his cancer was caused by smoking) and the same doctor who said my husband had NO residuals of his cancer (though he didn't even EXAMINE my husband, and the medical records showed had a one lobe of his lung removed, and 11 inch scar from his scapula to under his arm, and REDUCED PFTs at the VA hospital THE SAME DAY the doctor wrote the opinion.)

So though this doctor mentioned the discharge physical - you can't really go by what he said.

The written notes of chronological care show he GOT a discharge physical - and indicate the form it is on. But the actual physical DISAPPEARED!

So yeah..there were SEVERAL things my husband's SMRs didn't show on his claims - because the SMR that might have shown them disappeared.

Oh.. and the one person I talked to at the RO indicated that my HUSBAND might not have SENT them his discharge physical!

How could he? He tried to get a copy from the record center - they don't have it because they sent it to the VA. If the VA is the "holder" of your service records - then you CAN"T get a copy to SEND them.

I wish they would pass a law that the VA only got COPIES of your records from the record center.

Why in the world do they get the ORIGINALs - when they lose so many papers?

I DID get copies of medical records of OTHER vets that were in my husband's C-file. I thought of offering to trade THOSE for a copy of the discharge physcial.

Free

x

x

x

Free, Did you ever recover that Discharge Physical Exam? ~Wings

[Wings]

Nope. They just tell me I already have everything that is in hs file.

Heck! I am STILL trying to get the second page of a medical opinion that was used to deny my claim.

The opinion I got is just written on a Report of Contact VA form. No name. No date. Says (Over) at the bottom - but there is NO page 2 in the records.

I am begining to think the discharge physical was NEVER in his file. The C&P's mention that my HUSBAND states he reported such and such at his discharge physical -but they don't DIRECTLY report anything that was on the discharge physical.

The ONLY doctor that refers directly to the discharge physical is the doctor on the lung cancer claim. This is the same doctor who also said my husband had no unique conditions that can be attributed to asbestos (though his post service records mention Interstitial Lung Disease in AT LEAST 30 records, including the pathology report that diagnosed it - this doctor didn't notice ANY of THOSE 30 records - but focused on the emphasematous changes that was reported ONE time - to say his cancer was caused by smoking) and the same doctor who said my husband had NO residuals of his cancer (though he didn't even EXAMINE my husband, and the medical records showed had a one lobe of his lung removed, and 11 inch scar from his scapula to under his arm, and REDUCED PFTs at the VA hospital THE SAME DAY the doctor wrote the opinion.)

So though this doctor mentioned the discharge physical - you can't really go by what he said.

Sounds like he might have KEPT that discharge physical. You know, when I applied to the AFBCMR, the first thing they do is to provide a preliminary "medical advisory opinion". Mine was a retired MD, Colonel (i'd have to go back and check his credentials); anyway, he cited a boot-camp psychological test that was so brief, and he went on and on with that small piece of evidence and built his whole case from that. I have never seen that particular piece of evidence in my 'records" anywhere. SO, I suspect that the DoD might hold back some records from the military personnel file. Maybe I'm being paranoid, but I always thought there were more records kept on active duty personnel (like our OJT records and such) that NEVER make it to NPRC,

I also can not understand why the VA would get original documents and not copies.

Free, your posts are always right on target and thought provoking. I appreciate what you have had to do, the fight you have had to carry on. I salute you ;-) ~~~Wings

PS If I learn of anymore VA "system of records", I'll ring you!!

idicate the form it is on. But the actual physical DISAPPEARED!

So yeah..there were SEVERAL things my husband's SMRs didn't show on his claims - because the SMR that might have shown them disappeared.

Oh.. and the one person I talked to at the RO indicated that my HUSBAND might not have SENT them his discharge physical!

How could he? He tried to get a copy from the record center - they don't have it because they sent it to the VA. If the VA is the "holder" of your service records - then you CAN"T get a copy to SEND them.

I wish they would pass a law that the VA only got COPIES of your records from the record center.

Why in the world do they get the ORIGINALs - when they lose so many papers?

I DID get copies of medical records of OTHER vets that were in my husband's C-file. I thought of offering to trade THOSE for a copy of the discharge physcial.

Free

[free_spirit_etc]

Even medical records - they have more records than those that are in your records. It seems like they have records and records...

One example - We went to the VA to get my husbands records. He was never treated at the VA - but he got his C&Ps there.

I was looking for his C&P for lung cancer. Didn't make sense. My husband kept swearing he NEVER HAD a C&P for lung cancer. But the SOC went on and on - "you told the examiner this. You told the examiner that.."

It was there. So I told him - you DID have a C&P for it. But then, looked - it is written on an EXAM form - LOOKS like an EXAM, but there was nothing on the report that was NOT in what my husband had WRITTEN to the VA - and it said the doctor was supposed to give an opinion after reviewing the record. That's all. They made it kind of sorta LOOK like an exam - but the doctor NEVER examined him.

Now surely they who have more forms than they know what to do with - could certainly come up with a FORM for a MEDICAL OPINION - so it would be CLEAR that it was NOT an exam.

The RO TOOK it as an exam (you told the doctor blahblahblah - NOPE - didn't SEE the guy).

Anyway - back to the point. When my husband ASKED - "Is this ALL my records?" A little bit of "well..uhmmm.." started. Well - uhm... there is a psychological exam..but we don't usually GIVE those to the patients - because it COULD upset them...

What???????????

Yes. People might get upset if they read their psychological exams..so they don't usually give them to them.

He asked for his.

They actually had to have someone come and READ it - and make sure there was nothing on it they thought might upset him before he was ALLOWED to have it.

I read more about that. It seems like psychological records CAN be kept FROM the patient under the guise of it being "for their own good."

I was even reading somewhere that with psych diagnosis they CAN make TWO SOC's - one REAL one - and one they give the vet (that doesn't mention some of the stuff that might "upset" them.

Well - how in the WORLD are you supposed to defend your claim - when they are giving you a DIFFERENT SOC than the one they are playing by.

I am not sure how often this happens. And your vet rep is supposed to get a REAL copy. But hey! How about providing a FREE ATTORNEY to everyone who has their psych records withheld from them - make sure their rigths are protected - if you take away their right to protect themselves <<<< my idea, not theirs...lol

AND - we went to the base to get his post service medical records..signed the papers ... got a stack. But it was just all those little computerized CLIFF NOTES type med records.

These are what the military and VA LIKE to use now. It is all computerized. Everyone can just pull it up on a screen. BUT it is mostly check off list kind of stuff.. with a scant bit of "notes.

I couldn't believe it. I said "Gee - you had a SURGERY - and it is reduced to A PARAGRAPH!! An ENTIRE surgery!! And all they have documented is ONE PARAGRAPH???

So he went out to the Base - and said - is his most endearing way - "What's this crap???"

LOLOLOLOLOL

They said - "Oh - we have OTHER records -- like doctors notes - these are just your MEDICAL records -- If you want your DOCTOR NOTES - we will have to get those from the DOCTORS.

Well..YEAH.. we really wanted them - because the doctor who had written about the asbestos exposure - who the base attorney said couldn't write us an opinion - told us to come and get HIS NOTES - and maybe they would help.

So - my point being - When you ask for ALL your medical records - you THINK you are getting ALL your medical records - but they can have all kinds of OTHER records that they don't CONSIDER your "medical records" (like doctor notes).

And here is another scary thing - when the VA requests your records - they most likely request your MEDICAL records - but that doesn't mean they will get doctor notes, etc. But the vet THINKS they got everything.

I think THEY should be responsible for KNOWING what is stored where - and getting it all.

Had we not been so shocked about the scant crap they gave us - we never would have known there were still other medical records that aren't considered your medical record. And most of our evidence is within THOSE records - NOT on their little Cliff Notes of Medical Care.

It just isn't right...

Free

[Josephine]

Free,

I would have never guessed the VA system could be so dirty and

rotten, had it not been for what they put me through on my claim.

You are right, they take out valuable papers, and I think

this practice should be stopped by congress.

I hate to say, but I bet those papers are long gone by now.

The VA treats you like you don't have good sense and by the time

they are through with you, you question whether you have.

Always,

Betty

Edited June 14, 2008 by Josephine