C&p Exam Favorable?

[silke]

Thanks for all yur help....

My husband was diagnosed by the air force with adjustment disorder with depressed mood and avoidant personality traits in 1993 after a sudden character change ( got arrested twice, art 15, violent behavior, problems at work)...He got out on a voluntary separation, honorably.

with 6 months of separation he became schizophrenic, he refused treatment and denied any problem...lack of insight and judgement is a typical symptom of schizophrenia, and with the mental health laws in place, he could not be forced into treatment or meds.

In 2006 i was able to stage a intervention and get him into treatment and on meds at a county clinic...in 2007 he started going to the va clinic and the doctor there diagnosed him with p.schizophrenia, he suggested we apply for ssd and va comp.

He got ssd within six months and last year we applied for va comp......we had a c&p exam last week...i went with him (his gaf is 35 and needs help to communicate)..pretty easy exam and at the end the doctor said she believes that his condition began in the service....essentially the adjustment do eventually became schizophrenia.

How much weight does the doctors opinion at the c&p exam hold for a favorable outcome???

[Pete53]

How old was your husband it sounds like a classic misdiagnosis and we have seen it here before. With the proper medical opinion your husband sould win his claim.

Thank you for sticking with your Veteran.

[john999]

If he had filed for schizophrenia within a year of discharge he would probably have been granted 100% in 1993. Did he file any claims for a mental condition within a year of discharge? The fact the military discharged him with no medical discharge does not surprise me. They probably suspected schizophrenia, but were trying to save money. I was discharged way back in 1971 for a personality disorder but I filed with the VA within one year of discharge for depression and schizhophrenia. This was because I was in treatment and was hospitalized. Even so I was low balled and have this decision on appeal right now via the concept of CUE. What happened to your husband happened to thousands of veterans. I think that after your husband is rated I would find a lawyer and see if their is any hope of getting some of that retro pay. Do you have a complete copy of this service medical records and the rest of his personnel file? It is a long shot but worth a look.

[silke]

Thank you all so very much for your replys

My husband was 23 when the AF diagnosed with adjustment d.o. w/depressed mood.....I got his medical records, which took nine months, his diagnosis was in there, but the rest of his mental health records were not included...he saw a couple of psychiatrists and had many visits with a social worker.

The C&P examiner, who is a doctor of psychology, said it was her medical opinion that schizophrenia was incurred in military service...so we r hoping that the VA will side with her......if they dont, could we still get comp for the adjustment disorder????

[john999]

If you get denied I would file a notice of disagreement and hire a lawyer. There is a lot at stake here. Your problem is that 18 years have passed since discharge. Since the C&P doctor opines that the schizophrenia is service connected I think you have a shot, but it is a rating officer that makes the decision not the doctor. I would not take NO for an answer on this.

[silke]

hello all,,,,,yes, John999, I agree with you.....my husband had 6 months left in service when he was given the adjustment disorder w/depressed mood w/avoidant personality traits. He was either misdiagnosed or it was a political diagnosis. If they could have caught this earlier, much more could have been done and his life might have been different. So, this isnt just about money.

I went to the state veterans office last Tuesday, got signed up with a vso and he's getting us a copy of the c&p exam report. I will post it here when I get it..should be in a week or so.

Last thursday, a week after the c&p, I received a call from the VA and they told me his claim is going to the rating department for a decision and it would take a few weeks. So i guess no more C&P's.....seems like its moving quick now.....dont know if thats good or bad....from the research ive done on here, thats unusual!!...any input on that?

Thanks to all

[john999]

That sounds good. I wonder what the effective date will be for the award? If I know the VA it will be the date you filed the claim for schizophrenia and all the years since 1993 will just be blank. After you get the award you can look into some way to get an EED if it is possible. The VA and military do not admit mistakes without taking a sledge hammer to them.

[carlie]

Last thursday, a week after the c&p, I received a call from the VA and they told me his claim is going to the rating department

for a decision and it would take a few weeks. So i guess no more C&P's.....seems like its moving quick now.....dont know if thats good or bad....

from the research ive done on here, thats unusual!!...any input on that?

Thanks to all

silke,

Just to keep from being disappointed tell yourself it will be at least

6 months, before you get a rating decision.

[Joe Johansen]

Excellent advice you've received here. I can't add much except one idea (below) and to say definitely consult with an attorney who specializes in VA compensation cases, especially if they deny the claim.

One thing to check is if the examining psychologist provided a detailed rationale for her opinion. For example, did she point out symptoms that your husband exhibited in service that were actually "prodromal" (early) symptoms of schizophrenia?

If she (the psychologist) didn't provide much of a rationale in the report and if you get turned down, then your attorney could maybe ask the psychologist to write an addendum explaining in more detail how she reached the schizophrenia diagnosis. (I'm not sure if they can do that--really just thinking out loud here to try to cover all the possibilities for you).

Good luck!

Joe

[john999]

Yes, you know many can exhibit symptoms of major mental illness that are seen as either misconduct (criminal) or evidence of personality disorder. The military and VA are really famous for saying some person with schizophrenia or bi-polar is just a sociopath. This way they don't have to pay. For instance, a vet with PTSD is self medicating with illegal drugs. The army kicks him out as a drug addict. Now the vet has to show that his PTSD was the underlying condition and drug abuse was a symptom. This can be a real battle. I did it, but spent 3 months in three different nuthouses while I was in the army and on leave and after discharge. I took two years to get a rating after I was discharged.

[Pete53]

Is the VA saying that adjustment disorder is same as personality disorder. I don't like calling a Mental Health Disorder an adjustment disorder

[john999]

I don't think they are saying adjustment disorer is a PD, but maybe that it is not as serious or permanent as PTSD. When they see a sunami of PTSD claims coming at the it is the VA way to try and minimize that wave.

[Joe Johansen]

I don't think they are saying adjustment disorer is a PD, but maybe that it is not as serious or permanent as PTSD. When they see a sunami of PTSD claims coming at the it is the VA way to try and minimize that wave.

Right. An Adjustment Disorder is definitely less severe than a personality disorder. Wikipedia has good articles on both: Adjustment Disorder - Personality Disorder.

Unfortunately the military (especially Army & Marine Corps) were notorious for giving everybody an Adjustment Disorder (or personality disorder) diagnosis so that they wouldn't qualify for disability benefits (and for other reasons). I use the past tense in that last sentence because my (limited) understanding is that this tendency to under-diagnose has lessened in recent years. Of course, even if that is true, it doesn't help all the veterans who were in the service during the old days of "everyone has an adjustment disorder."

The good news is that experienced C&P examiners know about this history too and they take the military-based adjustment disorder diagnoses with a grain of salt.

Joe

[silke]

From my research...adjustment disorders are compensable...generally in the 10-30% range. I saw that they changed that in 96. Citation Nr: 0926541 is a good example.

The psychologist (MD), said the axis I and the axis II (avoidant personality traits), are symptoms of a prodromal phase of shizophrenia, especially when she got a rundown of his entire military history. He had two achievement medals, a good conduct medal, was selected for NCO leadership school before he was even an nco, had 45 credits toward a college degree, campaign medal for op. desert storm/shield, the highest ratings on his enlisted performance reports and had an intention of making the military a career. After five years of exemplary service his mental meltdown began.....and now he cant even subtract 7 from a 100......they had some gall calling this a personality disorder, your personality is well developed before military service age......ohhh, if only I knew back then what I know now,,,,heads would be rolling..LOL....

Sorry if it seems like im ranting and raging, I just want to see him get what he has deserved...thank you all for listening.

[Joe Johansen]

From my research...adjustment disorders are compensable...generally in the 10-30% range. I saw that they changed that in 96. Citation Nr: 0926541 is a good example.

The psychologist (MD), said the axis I and the axis II (avoidant personality traits), are symptoms of a prodromal phase of shizophrenia, especially when she got a rundown of his entire military history. He had two achievement medals, a good conduct medal, was selected for NCO leadership school before he was even an nco, had 45 credits toward a college degree, campaign medal for op. desert storm/shield, the highest ratings on his enlisted performance reports and had an intention of making the military a career. After five years of exemplary service his mental meltdown began.....and now he cant even subtract 7 from a 100......they had some gall calling this a personality disorder, your personality is well developed before military service age......ohhh, if only I knew back then what I know now,,,,heads would be rolling..LOL....

Sorry if it seems like im ranting and raging, I just want to see him get what he has deserved...thank you all for listening.

Sounds like he got a good exam. The fact that she explained that the symptoms he had in service were symptoms of the prodromal (early) phase of schizophrenia is very good.

Schizophrenia is often compensated at 100% because it's such a debilitating illness.

Sorry you're having to go through all this. I admire your pluck and determination!

Best Regards,

Joe

[john999]

You know I was diagnosed with chronic schizophrenia within one year of discharge in 1971. I got 10% rating. The VA just ignored my evidence and relied on evidence of a worker in a mental ward that said I got on well with other mental patients. This was the bad old days and this is the VA in its glory. They did not even send me appeal rights. I did not even know I could appeal and that is not grounds for a CUE. I still have a CUE but not on duty to assist.

[silke]

hello all, just an update....its been a month now since the c&p and havent received a copy yet....got a letter from the va and it said it is processing our request for the record and it will be sent within 30 days......hmmmmm...they told us two weeks ago it went to the ratings department and would take 16-21 days...so its possible we could have a rating before we get a copy of the c&p...LOL...not gonna happen of course.....i just wish they were a bit more honest with their time estimations.....will hopefully post report soon.......thanks all

[silke]

Got it...with permission. Iptomsm just gonna include opinion and rationale w\gaf:

OPINION: In my opinion, the veteran suffers from paranoid schizophrenia and secondary depression NOS. His current condition is a continuation of symptoms first treated while he was in military service and diagnosed at that time as an adjustment disorder with depressed mood. Because I believe the current condition is a continuation of symptoms first evidenced during military service, I would say that the current disorder is most likely caused by or a result of military service.

RATIONALE FOR OPINION GIVEN: In my opinion, the veteran was experiencing predomal symptoms of schizophrenia while he was still in military service. Typically, people who develop schizophrenia have a 1-2 year period when they begin to have changes in mood and coping ability but before they experience full-blown hallucinations. The military note indicates a diagnoses of adjustment disorder with anxiety and avoidant personality traits. This would be a typical diagnoses of symptoms that occur in the predomal stage of schizophrenia. It is only in retrospect that they can be recognized as early symptoms of the disorder. The veteran indicates that he was starting to have some changes in his personality and ability to cope and that he initially refused treatment for the symptoms when he was discharged. When symptoms continued to worsen, he was hosptialized and diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia. This course of symptoms and delays in getting diagnosed and treated is typical for the disorder. He has a family history of schizophrenia and may have been predisposed to develop the disorder, but it was the stress of military stress that apparently provoked his first symptoms and the disease progressed from that point on.

xxxx xxxxxxxx

Psychologist

GAF: 35

What do you's guys thing!

[carlie]

This is sounding like a winner to me.

JMHO

[john999]

This sounds like a 100% to me.

[Pete53]

Slam dunk but don't do anything till you get the check

Good Luck