Vaoig Says "rsvr's Are Confused"

[broncovet]

The VAOIG did a report on the St. Pete RO, and told us what most Vets already know. (Finding 5, Page 11)

"VARO staff did not properly address whether 22 (59 percent) of 37 Gulf War

veterans were entitled to receive treatment for mental disorders. These errors

occurred because VSC staff lacked understanding of VBA policy and

overlooked reminder notifications to consider entitlement to mental health

treatment. As a result, veterans may be unaware of their possible entitlement

to treatment for mental disorders and may not get the care they need.

Interviews with VSC management and staff confirmed RVSRs did not

always follow VBA policy to consider entitlement to mental health treatment

when they denied the Gulf War veterans service connection for mental

disorders. RVSRs stated the criteria regarding entitlement to mental health

treatment for Gulf War veterans was confusing and that it was easy to ignore

the reminder notification. VSC management stated they last had training on

this topic in December 2010."

http://www.va.gov/oig/pubs/VAOIG-11-04243-86.pdf

[Capt.]

Hello All,,,,,,

I believe that Jbasser hit it right on the head. This whole VA decision process seems like it is confusion and that how can the ROs be that stupid. However Hoppy said the magical phrase......the powers to be. I believe that a few people way up the ladder are controling all the strings. The set out course is based on not one decision but thousands that are very similiar and that course has already been proven by the VA to work. Why change something that works so well. In the so called confusion of the Regional Offices, it actually is done so on a huge scale that operates on mass decisions that have the same result favorable to the VA. It is the time scale that beats the VA......that coupled with evidence that strangely ,almost always ends up at the BVA or higher. Oh yes ....and then it incredibly gets REMANDED back to the VA for a proper decision or rating or both. It is just too huge and the number of "mistakes" the ROs make.

Make no mistake about it.....it is run so well and has been thought out so well by brilliant think tank Lawyers that the confusion is really what the VA real decision makers want us to believe. How many Veterans have really won their case/claim by any other course than that which has been laid out by the VA. It is always.... claim filed....denied or lowballed.......results in ..........notice of disagreement.......which results in ........half right decision/denied decision.....which results in the Appeal to BVA.......which results in mostly remands , few awards..........which results back to Regional office....which results in correction of award or closure of claim. There is one other way that can be used ,,,,but it takes years and years to get there.... and that is CAVC.

This thing called the VA Claims Process is a carefully thought out , brilliant plan , that has worked so well that noone can get it stopped or changed. VAOIGs, General Accounting Office, House and Senate Subcommittes have not been able to change it in the last lifetime of problems. Have we forgotten that the Lawyers still run it. The final say is with the Lawyers ....isn't it always????

It runs so smoothly that the VA does not want a change and appearing to have confusion actually works to their benefit as the smoke screen to any other agency that ask questions as to why so many problems. It is something to think about.......it is SCAREY. All of us here can ponder where we have been in the "Process" and almost all of us have had to go thru what I posted above..... I am somewhere beyond the halfway point in the "Process" and it is like Jbasser said.....scripted. I just have not gotten to my correct scene yet ....my part of the play....my role in the story.

As Wings brought up... it takes the court to make the VA do anything and still the backlog is huge,,,confusion brought on by a well orchestrated scripted plan that results in noone getting blamed for something that noone but a select few can figure out.

It would take many years to change ,,,,but why would they do that? Like it or not this "Process" is here to stay for a good while yet. The VA is counting on the VETERAN quitting but as for me.....NEVER GIVE UP. God Bless, C.C.

Edited February 15, 2012 by Capt.Contaminate

[Pete53]

The difference between how the VA operates its claims and Social Security borders on criminal. The VA is never going to straighten up till Congress and Administrative fixes it.

[Bigred122]

Hello All,,,,,,

I believe that Jbasser hit it right on the head. This whole VA decision process seems like it is confusion and that how can the ROs be that stupid. However Hoppy said the magical phrase......the powers to be. I believe that a few people way up the ladder are controling all the strings. The set out course is based on not one decision but thousands that are very similiar and that course has already been proven by the VA to work. Why change something that works so well. In the so called confusion of the Regional Offices, it actually is done so on a huge scale that operates on mass decisions that have the same result favorable to the VA. It is the time scale that beats the VA......that coupled with evidence that strangely ,almost always ends up at the BVA or higher. Oh yes ....and then it incredibly gets REMANDED back to the VA for a proper decision or rating or both. It is just too huge and the number of "mistakes" the ROs make.

Make no mistake about it.....it is run so well and has been thought out so well by brilliant think tank Lawyers that the confusion is really what the VA real decision makers want us to believe. How many Veterans have really won their case/claim by any other course than that which has been laid out by the VA. It is always.... claim filed....denied or lowballed.......results in ..........notice of disagreement.......which results in ........half right decision/denied decision.....which results in the Appeal to BVA.......which results in mostly remands , few awards..........which results back to Regional office....which results in correction of award or closure of claim. There is one other way that can be used ,,,,but it takes years and years to get there.... and that is CAVA.

This thing called the VA Claims Process is a carefully thought out , brilliant plan , that has worked so well that noone can get it stopped or changed. VAOIGs, General Accounting Office, House and Senate Subcommittes have not been able to change it in the last lifetime of problems. Have we forgotten that the Lawyers still run it. The final say is with the Lawyers ....isn't it always????

It runs so smooth that the VA does not want a change and appearing to have confusion actually works to their benefit as the smoke screen to any other agency that ask questions as to why so many problems. It is something to think about.......it is SCAREY. All of us here can ponder where we have been in the "Process" and almost all of us have had to go thru what I posted above..... I am somewhere beyond the halfway point in the "Process" and it is like Jbasser said.....scripted. I just have not gotten to my correct scene yet ....my part of the play....my role in the story.

As Wings brought up... it takes the court to make the VA do anything and still the backlog is huge,,,confusion brought on by a well orchestrated scripted plan that results in noone getting blamed for something that noone but a select few can figure out.

It would take many years to change ,,,,but why would they do that? Like it or not this "Process" is here to stay for a good while yet. The VA is counting on the VETERAN quitting but as for me.....NEVER GIVE UP. God Bless, C.C.

Please forgive me but I have wanted to do this ever since I came to Hadit. And I shout " CAPTAIN CAVEMAN"!!(was a favorite cartoon when I was a kid) Ok now this is out of my system. Have you ever noticed that if the VA finds a Veteran lawyer who consistantly kicks their Azz in court that they soon hire them to represent their side. And if they are really good they make them a judge. Check out the judges profiles and you will find this to be the normal and not the exception! mike

[donna68]

Wings,

Yes, there are some lazy workers in all organizations, however, San Diego RO actually has a policy to invite claims. Meaning if they review a veterans treatment records (newly discharged) and see that they were diagnosed with something permanent like arthritis of the knee and the veteran doesnt claim it, raters are required to invite the claim. Yes, some staff are lazy and dont invite the claim, but the majority, well 85% are veterans themselves and are likely to invite the knee arthritis.Does anyone check to make sure the staff invited a claim? No, but hundreds of claims do get invited each week.

Captain Contaminate,

I agree, upper management sets the bar, and is responsible for the results or lack there of and in VBA, standard operating procedures tend to be non existent, hence, no one is on the same page.

jbasser,

Unfortunately, we cant assume the staff are educated and intelligent, because they arent all fitting into one or both of thise categories. Nor or they well informed, and when staff arent informed and there are no standard operating procedures, confusion is inevitable. I think more pressure needs to be put on the top dogs and less blame on the worker bees.

[Wings]

Wings,

Yes, there are some lazy workers in all organizations, however, San Diego RO actually has a policy to invite claims. Meaning if they review a veterans treatment records (newly discharged) and see that they were diagnosed with something permanent like arthritis of the knee and the veteran doesnt claim it, raters are required to invite the claim. Yes, some staff are lazy and dont invite the claim, but the majority, well 85% are veterans themselves and are likely to invite the knee arthritis.Does anyone check to make sure the staff invited a claim? No, but hundreds of claims do get invited each week.

Donna, I have never heard the term "invite" in regards to a veteran's claim. However, I understand the statute of "inferred claim". Are you certain the word you want to use is "invite"? Am I confused? ~Wings

Edited February 16, 2012 by Wings

[jbasser]

This again brings me back to my quality assurance handling of all things related.

In essence the governing body or level one controlling document for the VA is the title 38 CFR.

The Level 2 is the M21. The M21 should be followed to the letter.

As we do know each veterans claim is different in its scope and complexity but the regs governing it is based on principal.

So much is lost in the interpetation of this that it really amazes me. If they only had a National Level Quality Assurance Department answering only to the Secretary and were alllowed to audit at random with in process claims, finished claims, completed claims would the system be improved. It would benefit the Veteran if all claims had a QA stamp of approval. It may cost the Veteran a week or 2 longer but It would eventually speed up the process and avoid the delays making the RO more efficient in its job.

The first thing that has to change is the mindset. If that takes Upper management then that has to come from way up then so be it.

J