4 Ways To Find Military Exposures A O/ G W S

[pacmanx1]

Years ago when I was doing my own research on my medical health, I contacted the Institute of Medicine (IOM) for as much information they could help me with and this is what they sent me. I was just cleaning my PC and thought that this may help other veterans. Of course there is a lot more on the site but I think this is a good start.

http://www.publichealth.va.gov/exposures/

http://www.publichealth.va.gov/exposures/vaccinations-medications.asp

http://www.publichealth.va.gov/exposures/gulfwar/sources/vaccinations.asp

Hope this helps

Edited February 15, 2015 by pacmanx1

[camidonHP]

I have taken multiple baths in JP-8 but it is the 7808 hydro fluid that I breathed in that I believe is causing me the most problems, especially neurologically. I was an AGE mechanic for 8 years before becoming a Flight Engineer and we used to joke about our lunch not tasting right if it didn't have hydro, JP-8 or 83282 (synthetic oil now 87257, I believe) on it. I always tried to wear all the required safety gear, but sometimes it is not practical or enough to avoid exposure. I got bathed in JP-8 in Iraq 3 times in a row on the same day at Al Asad trying to refuel from a series of broken Marine fuel trucks. The last time, I was actually able to get fuel in the aircraft, but the "line drain" for the truck malfunctioned. When I removed the QD from the SPR, it was "limp" but still had some fuel pressure, so it splattered off of the SPR and drenched me head-to-toe. I swapped into a spare uniform from my bag, wiped off as much as I could with paper towels and headed back to Balad before our flying day expired.

I do have to wear a heavy beard now to cover up the seborrheic dermatitis I get on my face. I also get it on my scalp chest, armpits and groin and use shampoo/topicals to try and keep it under control. I also get weird "heat rashes" on my upper arms when the conditions are right (Hot like the desert) and I do know other flyers that get the same thing in the same place (outer, upper arm). I never was able to get the docs to do more than give it a cursory look, but I never had that before I went over there and the same goes for the others I know with this. The dermatitis started in my arm pits, so I thought it was a reaction to the type of deodorant I used. It was several years later before it started to show up on my face and I thought it was razor burn at first. Weather changes seem to impact the dermatitis as well. At least I never got hydrazine exposure to my knowledge.

I did get a lot of vaccinations as well, since I was "well traveled" on AD and I was a special operator for around 7 years. As a matter of fact, we had to keep ALL vaccinations up-to-date for all areas, to include ones like "Japanese Encephalitis" that only special operations and possibly some other aviators were required to maintain. My 5th or 6th Anthrax shot has caused pain at the site it was injected for almost 10 years now. I can put light pressure on that spot and it will hurt for 10-15 minutes. My AD neurologist a few years back said that was most likely from the needle and not the actual vaccine, but who knows?

According to Mobil's MSDS, these are the components of 7808 Fluid:

1-NAPHTHYLAMINE, N-PHENYL-

90-30-2

1%

ALKYLATED DIPHENYL AMINES

68411-46-1

1 - < 5%

TRICRESYL PHOSPHATE

1330-78-5

1 - < 3%

Tricresyl Phosphate (TCP) is definitely known to have dermatological and neurological effects. See the WHO's report here. I haven't found too much on the long-term effects of chronic exposure, or a definitive link to dermatitis. It seems to be excreted fairly quickly.

I'm not sure what your neurological symptoms/diagnoses are, but it's clear that exposure to constituents in JP-jet fuels can cause many neurological problems:

The n-hexane found in JP-4 has been shown to cause peripheral neuropathy, and distal nerve fiber degeneration throughout the nervous system.

In some cases, the peripheral neurodegeneration caused by chronic exposure to n-hexane and its metabolites can lead to atrophy of the skeletal muscles.

The toulene and xylene (along with trichloroethylene (TCE,) which is a solvent many in the military use on a regular basis, including many who are regularly exposed to JP-jet fuels, such as aircraft mechanics and electronics technicians) have both been shown repeatedly to cause symptoms of brain atrophy, reduction in nerve conduction, loss of both grey and white matter, and a general “clinical syndrome of premature aging of cortical function.”

Chronic exposure to toulene has been shown to affect the function of the N-methyl-D-aspartate (NMDA) receptors in the hippocampus. This leads to an average of 7% decrease in cognitive function, including visual memory, verbal memory, visual pattern perception, and even manual dexterity.

It's fairly easy to link JP jet fuels to parkinsons, dementia, and alzheimer's as well, and possibly even ALS and Huntington's. Jet fuels are no joke.

I'm not a doctor, but I have read that chronic seborrhoeic dermatitis CAN be a sign of parkinson's. If you're also having other neurological symptoms, you may want to double check with a specialist to be sure.

Edited June 16, 2015 by camidonHP

[TALON II FE]

camidonHP,

Thanks for all the great info, I have a very long laundry list of neuro issues. Peripheral Neuropathy is on that list along with: Meralgia Paresthetica, Peripheral Nerve Injury Shoulder Girdle And Upper Limb, Neuritis Median Nerve Right Arm, Deep Peroneal Nerve Atrophy, Occipital Nerve Impingement, Migraine Headaches, Radiculopathy (and other spinal, mostly cervical, and mostly from other trauma, I believe), and Myofascial Pain Syndrome.

For sinus problems, due to inhalation during an aircraft emergency, I have: Chronic Pansinusitis, Allergic Rhinitis, Nasal Polyps (removed twice since exposure, all benign so far), Eustachian Tube Dysfunction Right Ear, and OSA w/CPAP. I have had my ethmoid and sphenoid sinus cavities removed due to the sinus disease I "acquired" and my frontals were stinted and combined into a single cavity. Everything else was scraped/cleaned/removed during a 5 hour Full Frontal (FESS) procedure a year and a half ago. Seborrheic Dermatitis, IBS and vascular issues round out the list, I guess. I have PTSD as well, and a few other issues but I believe they are not be related to any exposure. I just turned 44.

Maybe these lists help someone else or have value to someone doing research.

One caveat pertaining to MSDS data, based off of research I did myself a while ago: For these fluids, the MILSPEC is not based off of content of the lubricant, it is based off of other characteristics (viscosity, breakdown conditions, flashpoint, resistance to freezing, etc). This is a problem because the actual chemical breakdown can vary from different manufacturers. With different chemical breakdowns, the health issues and/or risks can vary. Since there is no way of knowing what manufacturers fluid is currently in equipment, it is difficult (read probably impossible) to tie it to a specific one. I could see this being used against Vets with chemical exposures, since the MSDS is usually specific to the manufacturer. In the military, we use MIL SPEC designations but these do NOT directly cross over to a single, specific MSDS for a single, specific MIL SPEC. Usually there are multiple for each MIL SPEC. (Hey, maybe I should go work for the VA! Anyone can find question marks...)

Before you read below, please keep in mind that I am no longer flying and I have not flown in 5 years. This is all based on "old skills" I am no longer able to employ. For example, in a post above I swapped around 83282 and 7808, one an engine oil used, the other a hydraulic oil used. I am embarrassed by this, since I spent 20 years working with these fluids, first as a maintainer and then as an aviator/operator.

(The example below is somewhat technical and probably boring unless you have had exposure or are interested in these things. I would stop here and not waste your time reading anymore unless you fit into one of these groups.)

I will use an example from the C-130, since that is where most of my corporate and system knowledge springs from: Early on, they used hydraulic fluid 5606 (a natural hydro). This is still used in aircraft jacks, lift stands, etc. They wanted a better "boil off" and flame resistance, so 83282 (synthetic) was developed. More recently, they went to 87257 (also synthetic), ostensibly due to better fire retardation and temperature qualities. (Many commercial aircraft went to another nasty version, Skydrol.). Now, 5606 and 83282 are NOT mixable. There have been brakefires documented that directly tie to this. Therefore, the system should have been flushed in triplicate (I believe, but maybe more than that.) during the swap over process in the late 80s to early 90's. ALso, many seals needed to be replaced due to different caustic properties between the two, one is "organic", the other synthetic. Next, 87257 came around and made it to the flightline in the last 10 years. It DOES mix with 83282 (both are synthetics), up to 50/50 and retain enough properties to meet the flame retardant levels required.

Now, here are some of the problems related to that; There is NO tracking system, no way to know what is actually in the aircraft anymore. It is a soup and the chefs have already left the building. Maintenance personnel at my last operational unit were using them interchangeably. The "bins" of spare fluid in the back of the aircraft could be either/or and often would be a mixture of both in sealed cans. Crew Chiefs would often pull from these first to "top off" the hydro systems. I would have to get them to refill the bins once out of every 3-4 preflights because they weren't full due to them using them and I needed them for IFE's. What was in the hydraulic test stands (Mule) used on the aircraft? Whatever is in the "Mule" is now mixed with whatever was in the aircraft. They did start stenciling this on units, but the reality is that they receive return oil from the aircraft so whatever is mixed up in the aircraft would be in the test stand as well. Therefore, any future aircraft using that same equipment would become contaminated as well. There is no litmus test to know which is in it,

I actually had a maintenance crew try and use a Transient Alert 5606 Mule (still used on some legacy aircraft, the B2 I believe is an example) at a TDY location to service one of my birds and I had to call over there as well as go to the MX CC at home station to stop them! This would have seriously compromised the entire hydro system and would have eaten up seals as well as increasing the fire risk exponentially. It would have had a serious domino effect, since the "natural" and synthetic fluids do not mix and even require different seal and gasket material, to avoid degradation of both the materials and the fluid itself. During my investigation, I came to the realization that all our equipment was essentially contaminated with an unknown amount of mixed fluids. Not good.

I went so far as to do the preliminary legwork with our local NDI Lab to do "burns" to get the properties off each aircraft, piece of equipment, etc to get an idea of the properties of the "soup", so we could drain and flush anything that wasn't within the required specs. "Someone" above me put the brakes on. Imagine routing up to AFSOC that your entire Pacific fleet of aircraft could be potentially downed for what is essentially mishandling and poor maintenance management? My belief is that it was not only us. I would say that it could have affected equipment across much of the Air Force fleet. Better to "ride it out" and hope there isn't an incident...and to my knowledge, there weren't any contributed to any of this in the military. There were multiple civilian Canadair aircraft that burned due to brake fires from seals that were "eaten away" by a fluid they were not designed for, causing leaks of mixed hydro that were not up to the required flashpoint because of mixing and contamination, which then caught fire and killed crew and passengers. I was trying to do my best to ensure neither myself nor any of my compatriots met a similar fate. I would like to add that I did attend the Aircraft Mishap Investigation Course and was qualified to do initial investigations as well as sit on a Aircraft Mishap Board.

[ArNG11]

Not trying to sound ungrateful, these are excellent posts with grand research. In my case, I've had more exposure being a tank rat with my Air Force federal employee career. However, in Iraq I and others were breathing in that burn pit smoke for at least 9 months. Trying to find a doc to put it in medical terms with the bridge to tie it to service has been an insanely difficult task. In my particular case I believe it's a combination of both, however, skin exposure to jet fuel I totally feel and believe that would be more likely to be related to my time as a kc135 tank rat. Unfortunately in DOL there is no benefit of doubt.

I will defend definitely look at those. Both my hand and ITP claims are headed to DC. Might be fun, and maybe it will time out to be in DC for both my appeals. VA and DOL. Haven't seen the White House in quite a few years.

[camidonHP]

Talon, thanks. That's really interesting info about how the command put the kibosh on testing the fluid. I agree the MSDS isn't a very good source, and there are often contaminants. I sometimes use them as jumping off points. This paper has a ton of great info, including known contaminants. While I certainly agree that different manufacturer's oils, and even different batches from the same manufacturer can have different constituent components and contaminants, I would think providing evidence in the article I linked to that says the contaminants or components are common SHOULD be sufficient to show "at least as likely as not." Is it a scientifically sound proof that you were exposed or that health problems are a direct result of exposure? No. I'm not a lawyer, but it would seem to me that you just need to provide enough evidence to show that it's at least as likely as not. Of course, it's the VA, so who knows.

Your list of conditions sounds terrible. If I were making an argument to connect a lot of them to your time in service, I would likely focus on jet fuels rather than the oils, and there are just an insane amount of constituent components in JP fuel that can cause so many problems.

[TALON II FE]

My opinion has been that the culprit is TCP from my limited research. It is heavily present in hydros, it is also in pesticides and I believe has been indicated in both AO and GWI and I see no possible scenario where it was not present in the burn pits we both got "used to" during our time there. Here is the problem I keep running into though, stated on MSDSs and here directly quoted from the UN report: "There is no direct information on absorption via the inhalation route." Herein lies a problem for vets trying to claim burn pit issues. My opinion of the reality of the burn pit registry? We are the test group because...(Again, UN report quote) "There is wide interspecies variability for the various toxic end-points (e.g., acute lethality, delayed neurotoxicity) of TOCP exposure..."

In reality, they don't know and by not knowing and not giving benefit of the doubt they have made themselves inculpable. I am fortunate (I guess), in that I had diagnostics done for many nerve issues on AD and they are all in my SMRs. I am expecting the government to be in a position where they cannot try and force an impractical Nexus. That seems to be their #1 way to screw people out of their disability awards for issues like ours. If I had gotten out when they wanted to medically retire me, I would be in a bad place with a lot of difficulty proving connections, like you, and if I come across anything I think may help, I will share it. I feel they know more than they let on (I believe there is a similar thread thru AO/GWI/Burn pits, etc and we are the confirming or refuting data that will be used by doctors and scientists in the future to prove or disprove varied lofty hypotheses, mostly to the betterment and defense of corporate enterprises and not individuals. But, heck, what do I know? It's probably just the PTSD, right? It's not like there is a long history of these things happening, even predating the industrial revolution. Man, I sound like some conspiracy theorist!

[TALON II FE]

Talon, thanks. That's really interesting info about how the command put the kibosh on testing the fluid. I agree the MSDS isn't a very good source, and there are often contaminants. I sometimes use them as jumping off points. This paper has a ton of great info, including known contaminants. While I certainly agree that different manufacturer's oils, and even different batches from the same manufacturer can have different constituent components and contaminants, I would think providing evidence in the article I linked to that says the contaminants or components are common SHOULD be sufficient to show "at least as likely as not." Is it a scientifically sound proof that you were exposed or that health problems are a direct result of exposure? No. I'm not a lawyer, but it would seem to me that you just need to provide enough evidence to show that it's at least as likely as not. Of course, it's the VA, so who knows.

Your list of conditions sounds terrible. If I were making an argument to connect a lot of them to your time in service, I would likely focus on jet fuels rather than the oils, and there are just an insane amount of constituent components in JP fuel that can cause so many problems.

Well, I just left AD in the fall, so all of this is in my SMRs. I just need to figure out how my family survives until I can get a decision. There seems to be absolutely no stopgap programs. I can't work, which was the driving reason for my retirement from AD. It seems that, by not med boarding, I have screwed myself. My credit is destroyed. I am bankrupt, very literally and we will be worse off soon when the bank gets our one working vehicle and my wife will no longer be able to go to work. I can't really work and if I did, no one will hire me with the amount of issues I have when they will not even get the tax credit for hiring a disabled vet. Most charity organizations will not help without a % award, which is painfully comical because I would then not need the charity. We are borrowing about $2k a month from relatives just to sustain our household, but that is running out. Etc, etc, it's a long broken record at this point.