Why another C&P?

[spirit_grt]

Filed appeal 12/2019 using lawyer.  Finally in front of  judge 07/2023.  Remanded to RO to do a C&P(was requested when filed appeal but denied by VA) .  C&P done by VES Sept 2023 and mid-Sept 2023 went to decision phase.  Assigned to St Petersburg RO from National Work Queue early last week.  On 12th a request was put in by whoever has the case for ANOTHER C&P.  This time with QTC.  Why would another C&P be need so soon after last one?  Fishing for someone to disagree with doctors who have been treating me since 2010 and the doc from last C&P so they can deny?  What reason would they have?   DBQ was well put together, all questions answered with good detail.  

This is probably more venting than anything because no one can read they mind,  but I  would like some opinions/experiences on why they would make me do another so soon.

[pacmanx1]

3 hours ago, spirit_grt said:

This is probably more venting than anything because no one can read they mind,  but I  would like some opinions/experiences on why they would make me do another so soon.

Who can truly answer for someone else?  The simplest answer, because they have the authority to do just about what they want. I am not trying to be a smart ass. There is no rhyme or reason why the VA does what they do. You could have an incomplete medical exam, or the medical rationale may not be clear enough for VA rating purpose.  

[broncovet]

Short answer:  C and P exams are at VA's discrection and we dont know.  

However, its not that unusual the C and P exam is insufficient for rating.  Many things can be omitted or inaccurate. 

Some examples:

   1.  "If" already service connected, then symptoms need to be documented.  

   2.  A date needs to be given when symptoms began.  The VARO often uses the date of the c and p exam, but that may not fly with the BVA or above.  It does not take a rocket scientist to figure out if you have been treated for a disorder since 2002, and they gave you a c and p exam in April, 2024, your symptoms did not begin in April 2024.  They began Much earlier.  How much earlier?  That needs to be documented by a doctor for a real accurate effective date.  

3..   Etiology.  "If" the examiner opined that your condition was at least as likely as not due to an event in service, they often want a medical rational as to why the examiner said same.  

4.  There can be other things, too, such as it would be impossible to tell from the exam, which if any of the applicable criteria were met. 

5.  Finally, the exam may be incomplete, may not be signed or dated.  Or, the exam may be ambigious, or may be in conflict with other exams.  

Edited April 16 by broncovet

[El Train]

A lot of times they request another C&P exam because the prior one may have missed something or they want a second opinion.  It happened to me a lot and came out in my favor.

Just go to the C&P exam and wait for the results.  QTC has been fair with me on every C&P exam except one.  If it comes back unfavorable, then get back to us.  You can contest the exam with the VARO.  I've done this with success and can guide you.

[spirit_grt]

I thank all for the responses.  I can't figure out what they think is missing from the DBQ as the doc covered everything very in-depth, neither can lawyer, but I'm going thru with it.  Was scheduled for Tuesday but the location wasn't good and the doc they assigned it too is an xxxxxxx according to all reports from vets and civilians.   Lawyer set up a 3-way call with QTC so I could have it put in their paperwork that he has full POA for this and can speak for me.  Been rescheduled and made a video appointment-and with a different doc.  One that has  a better rep, too.  Having a lawyer handle this is good, he laid it out and they did not argue at all.  It will be 3 weeks from now and that will give him time to argue the issue with the VA to either cancel or at least limit the scope.  Years of VA records supporting my claim and a C&P few months ago with in-depth DBQ, there is no reason to put me thru it again.  Fishing?  Probably, but can't prove it even if is.  

Well, for what its worth, that is the latest.  Anyone needs a solid lawyer who will fight for them, a vet himself, this is the  guy you want.  

 

[El Train]

On 4/19/2024 at 10:41 AM, spirit_grt said:

I can't figure out what they think is missing from the DBQ as the doc covered everything very in-depth, neither can lawyer, but I'm going thru with it.  

 

 

 

I get your frustration.  I had several DBQ's done outside the VA (no lawyer, because I was pretty versed in the CFR).  My DBQ's were way better and more thorough than any of the VA DBQ exams.  One of my examiners was a former QTC guy with over 20,000 exams to his resume.  The other was a QTC DBQ instructor. Kind of knows what they are doing so to say, yet they asked for additional C&P's. I pissed off one QTC examiner with these outside exams.  She did a hack job C&P exam to counter mine.  I reported it to the VARO.  Got several more VA exams and ultimately threw the hack job exam out.  I wouldn't throw your outside exams in their face, it irritates them.  Just go through with them and let your lawyer do his job.

[Rattler]

On 4/14/2024 at 12:42 PM, spirit_grt said:

Filed appeal 12/2019 using lawyer.  Finally in front of  judge 07/2023.  Remanded to RO to do a C&P(was requested when filed appeal but denied by VA) .  C&P done by VES Sept 2023 and mid-Sept 2023 went to decision phase.  Assigned to St Petersburg RO from National Work Queue early last week.  On 12th a request was put in by whoever has the case for ANOTHER C&P.  This time with QTC.  Why would another C&P be need so soon after last one?  Fishing for someone to disagree with doctors who have been treating me since 2010 and the doc from last C&P so they can deny?  What reason would they have?   DBQ was well put together, all questions answered with good detail.  

This is probably more venting than anything because no one can read they mind,  but I  would like some opinions/experiences on why they would make me do another so soon.

It's ok to vent a little. 

First let me address the Remanded to RO. When the VA rated me for my PTSD. (It was on a remand) The decision letter from the BVA should list the reason why they are remanding it to the RO. (Someone did not answer the questions right. Or they need more information) In my case I did 2 C & P Exams and a third was requested for a independent medical opinion, (IMO) from the same doc.

On 4/17/2024 at 12:14 PM, El Train said:

A lot of times they request another C&P exam because the prior one may have missed something or they want a second opinion.  It happened to me a lot and came out in my favor.

Just go to the C&P exam and wait for the results.  QTC has been fair with me on every C&P exam except one.  If it comes back unfavorable, then get back to us.  You can contest the exam with the VARO.  I've done this with success and can guide you.

Maybe brokensoldger244 can add to this but I have been told by the VA if your claim fits certain criteria the system will automatedly request a C & P Exam. I don't know about the acracy to this I will see if I can get him to give some input hear.

To answer your question about, "Fishing for someone to disagree with doctors who have been treating me since 2010 and the doc from last C&P so they can deny?"  This does happen more than anyone admits to it.  If you can catch them in it the following does apply.

-VA cannot "develop to deny" a claim. Since I have already submitted a complete package of private evidence, any further development with C&Ps would violate VA policy: "Decision makers may not arbitrarily or capriciously refuse to assign weight to a claimant's evidence or develop with the purpose of obtaining evidence to justify a denial of the claim" (M21-1 Vii..3.B.1.a). This prohibition was emphasized in a law review article published by the BVA: "additional evidence should not be procured for the sole purpose of denying the veteran's claim" (1 Veterans L Rev. 94 (2009)). Even CAVC has strongly affirmed this policy: "Because it would not be permissible for VA to undertake such additional development if a purpose was to obtain evidence against an appellant's case, VA must provide an adequate statement of reasons or bases for its decision to pursue further development where such development reasonably could be construed as obtaining additional evidence for that purpose" (Mariano v Frincipi, 17 Vet. App. 312 (2003)).