Ao Guam

[free_spirit_etc]

When my husband was denied SC for his lung cancer the first time -- they stated he was not in Vietnam - and thus had no presumed AO exposure.

However, he was in Guam. We had questioned whether to address this issue IN CASE the government ever decides to admit to all the AO in Guam.

Should the issue be at least briefly addressed - in case they ever do admit to AO in Guam (to protect the orginal filing date)?

I know if they admited to the AO - the claim could be reopened if it is denied -- but if we don't alledge at this time that his cancer COULD be caused by AO in Guam - then if they open up the claims -- will they process the ones that DID allege AO exposure previously differently than the ones that did NOT?

Free

[LarryJ]

One of the trans-shipment points for the 55 gal barrels of AO was Guam.

If he did, in fact, work with the docks, warehousing, unloading, loading.....etc., then it is a "well-grounded""plausible" claim and I would pursue it vigorously.

Some of the cheap-assed barrels that they used to ship that stuff in, leaked from the time they were filled, here in the States, until they were drained of whatever was left in them when they got in-country. A lot of the barrels were "used barrels" that were originally filled with something else. They would take these barrels, paint an orange stripe around the middle, and, viola, they had AO barrels.

When I was a kid (teenager) in Oklahoma, I worked for a crop-dusting outfit.

My job was as a "flagman". I'd stand down at one end of the fields that we were "dusting" that day and when the pilot made a pass, I would step over a certain number of steps and wave my pole with a flag on the end when he began his next pass overhead. Needless to say, I got this stuff all over me. Some of that "stuff" I know was AO, for we were defoliating mesquite so it could be cleared from the pastures. This was in 1960-61. Nothing I can do about it now.....fortunately none of my kids have been born with tails and horns! The stuff that they were spraying came in 55 gal drums with orange around the middle.......and every couple of days, some dude from some government agency (everybody said he was from the state ag. dept.) would show up to check our "progress".....hmmmmmm? I wonder? NAW, I'm SURE he was REALLY REALLY from the Okla. Dept. of Agriculture.............

[free_spirit_etc]

He was an electrician --and not directly involved with loading / unloading -- but I know the dioxin the EPA found at Andersen AFB was substantial...They have also found all KINDS of stuff in the water and air there too. Bt someone told me that a lot of the dioxin in the soil at Andersen was from them dumping the AO to get rid of it -- and so it would be hard to say when that happened (IF it happened). He was also at Andersen during Hurricane Pamela -- so they did lots of stuff that wasn't their typical "job."

OMG -- you lived dangerous being a flagman for the crop dusters. The military probably seemed "safe" after that experience. My father was a farmer and they had HIM be the flagman once when they dusted his fields. The plane knocked the flag out of his hand and knocked him down. They called him several DAYS later -- to see if he had been hurt..Geeesh!

Free

One of the trans-shipment points for the 55 gal barrels of AO was Guam.

If he did, in fact, work with the docks, warehousing, unloading, loading.....etc., then it is a "well-grounded""plausible" claim and I would pursue it vigorously.

Some of the cheap-assed barrels that they used to ship that stuff in, leaked from the time they were filled, here in the States, until they were drained of whatever was left in them when they got in-country. A lot of the barrels were "used barrels" that were originally filled with something else. They would take these barrels, paint an orange stripe around the middle, and, viola, they had AO barrels.

When I was a kid (teenager) in Oklahoma, I worked for a crop-dusting outfit.

My job was as a "flagman". I'd stand down at one end of the fields that we were "dusting" that day and when the pilot made a pass, I would step over a certain number of steps and wave my pole with a flag on the end when he began his next pass overhead. Needless to say, I got this stuff all over me. Some of that "stuff" I know was AO, for we were defoliating mesquite so it could be cleared from the pastures. This was in 1960-61. Nothing I can do about it now.....fortunately none of my kids have been born with tails and horns! The stuff that they were spraying came in 55 gal drums with orange around the middle.......and every couple of days, some dude from some government agency (everybody said he was from the state ag. dept.) would show up to check our "progress".....hmmmmmm? I wonder? NAW, I'm SURE he was REALLY REALLY from the Okla. Dept. of Agriculture.............

[Pete53]

Even the Military lists Guam as a c0ontaminated spot for AO.

AGENT ORANGE

Outside of Vietnam: Guam

http://cybersarges.tripod.com/aoguam.html

AGENT ORANGE ASSOCIATED DISORDERS APPROVED BVA DECISIONS OUTSIDE OF VIETNAM

http://www.2ndbattalion94thartillery.com/Chas/guambva.htm

Its really a pretty easy find if you use Google.

Good Luck

[free_spirit_etc]

Thanks Pete. I have been in contact with Van and he sent me LOTS of information --document after document -- especially concerning the AO in Guam and the drinking water that was contaminated with all kinds of chemicals and pesticides for years. They had congressional hearings on the drinking water. They were ordered to start testing it after my husband had already left. The hearings showed that the tests they did were inadequate (diluted the tests, did not do tets for a long period of time though ordered, etc.) Lane Evans really pushed to have the files opened about the AO use on Guam -- so that the vets that were affected would be able to get benefits. The records are apparently sealed for "national security reasons." The copy of the EPA findings of Dioxin on the soil at Andersen is at their website. Of course, there was no PUBLIC health hazard involved - as the dioxin was only in areas that was off limits to civilians. Van even sent me information on the Nuclear Testing that was done in an area where the fallout is still affecting Guam. 100 years from now maybe someone would tell the truth.

I don't have enough to build a case though --lacking an IMO that connects my husband's lung cancer to chemicals that the Government won't admit were used. Heck! The VA won't even admit he was exposed to asbestos for 13 years -- though the electricians now have to wear respirators when they do the same type of work my husband did. But I thought that to at least mention Guam / AO -- could protect the connection if the Government ever decides to open their files about Guam on the issue.

The other website gives credit to the court for the AO / Guam decision - but it was actually the BVA. That one got through -- but other vets have been fighting for years trying to prove AO exposure in Guam. It is sad that the government won't admit to using AO in Guam...when Vet after vet tells stories about how they sprayed it all over the base to kill weeds -- and it killed all the weeds (and little animals - and other living things immediately). It just takes somewhat longer to kill humans.

Free

Even the Military lists Guam as a c0ontaminated spot for AO.

AGENT ORANGE

Outside of Vietnam: Guam

http://cybersarges.tripod.com/aoguam.html

AGENT ORANGE ASSOCIATED DISORDERS APPROVED BVA DECISIONS OUTSIDE OF VIETNAM

http://www.2ndbattalion94thartillery.com/Chas/guambva.htm

Its really a pretty easy find if you use Google.

Good Luck

[Berta]

We had a case last year here- where the widow's husband-Vietnam vet- died of lung cancer and MOPH told her this would be an award of DIC.

The VA denied-

Lung cancer claims due to AO exposure are only those that involve specific types of cancers - adendosarcomas etc-

I posted the listed here many times -it is also at the NVLSP web site and within VA's AO regs.

Also- cancer from asbestoes exposure also involves specific types of cancers.

Guam, Thailand,Okinawa vets etc- who have succeeded with AO claims have had two criteria met-

they proved that their duties or MOS put them into exposure and then they proved-by buddy statements-that the AO was used where they said they were exposed.

And they also proved that they had an AO presumptive illness such as an STS cancer on the AO list of presumptive disabilities.

I have an asbestos vet who has a form of cancer known to be caused by asbestos,

never smoked,no post service occupation involving asbestos-

had two MOS occupations in the Navy-one that had probable and the other highly probable exposure confimed for each MOS on the VA PIES list for Navy asbestos vets-and also we sent as evidence the VA asbestos regs,VA's statements on ships with asbestos, and also copy of a lawsuit where the man had won millions due to the exact same type of cancer which he proved was from asbestos.

Also I accessed his ship and found it had been dumped off coast of Iran as it contained too much asbestos and would have been too costly for Navy to remove it all.We sent that print out too. Still waiting for decision-

If you claim the AO- his exposure has to be confirmed- but the cancer must be on the AO STS list.

If you claim asbestos- that too must be clearly defined as due to asbestos exposure and then you need to prove his inservice occupation caused asbestos exposure.

His medical records will define what type of cancer he had and then it can be researched to see if this is either potential AO cancer or asbestos cancer.

Some of the vets here were in the old AO lawsuit-in 1991- like my husband and me-

at that time the court sent a detailed map where confirmed spraying had occurred-still my husband had to pinpoint exactly where he was and when-Ashau Valley -1965-1966- and describe what exposure he got and how.

He could identify the planes it came from, the affects to the tropical forest they were reconnoitering, and gave a good timeline.It remained in their utilities for weeks. It could all be verified by the court.

My point is this was before the presumptive VA AO regs came out-

it is basically what a non -in country Vietnam (some Korea Army vets are AO presumptive also)or their widow has to do to service connect disability or death to AO.

I used to email back and forth with Lane Evans-I have been involved with the AO issue since the early 1990s.Still- the documentation available-I have plenty- does not help prove AO exposure or AO disability for any individual veteran.

AO disability or death is proven by:

1. disability or cause of death proven to be AO presumptive by AO regs or very strong medical opinion with full medical rationale-

2. proven exposure to Agent Orange by inservice MOS or duties.

Edited April 29, 2007 by Berta

[free_spirit_etc]

I don't think I have a strong case for AO exposure. Nor do I really want to take the time to build it right now. I just wondered if I should mention it in some way "Additionally he was exposed to other carcinagons, such as yadayada that have been found to be present at Andersen Air force Base in Guam where he was stationed from __ to ___"

They would probably totally overlook it -- but it would be IN the file -- in case the Government ever decides to come clean about Guam.

The asbestos exposure is much stronger.

He had adenocarcinoma -- lung - lower lobe.

He was an electrician for 13 years.

There were no safety measures for asbestos instituted until after he cross trained in another field. (suported by buddy statements and a copy of the air Force Manuals that show the Asbestos Management Programs were instituted in 1988 - He was an electrician from 1970 - 1983)

The type of work he did put him in direct contact with friable asbestos (supported by buddy statements, Air Force regs that indicate that electricians are now required to be screened, wear respirators, etc for that type of work.

Evidence from the EPA shows that the PELS that were first established as safe were later found to be a significant risk.

He sent in his work reports that showed some of the types of work he did which exposed him to asbestos.

Part of the report states "We got a copy of the Asbestos Management report from the last base he worked as an electrician which shows they did a PARTIAL assessment of asbestos of the base in 1988.

The recommendations in this report indicate removal in the locations assessed as Hazard Areas.” These areas have a considerable amount of damage and have the potential to create a hazard for employees and patrons. An O & M Plan has been supplied with this report to help XXX “Clean Up” and monitor the “Hazard Areas” until abatement can take place. The O&M Plan is not an alternative to abatement but merely a plan of attach (sic) which will allow XXX to monitor and repair asbestos until it can be removed. It sets for a standard of work practice which is designed to help protect the workers as well as the occupants. Due to the large amount of material and the magnitude of cost it will take years to assess priorities, design projects, and approve monies for the abatement projects. The O & M Plan is designed to help in the interim.

Areas with large amounts of damage should be closed to personnel and labeled as asbestos hazard areas. These areas should only be entered in emergencies and by authorized personnel wearing protective clothing. After clean-up or abatement, air tests should be taken to assure thae area is clean and ready for occupancy.

A need for quartly air monitoring should be discussed by xxx. With the magnitude of material and the amount of abatement work that is imminent, it would be most cost effective to train Scott Air Force Base employees to obtain and analyze air samples on base Implementation of the in-house O & M Plan and worker training is also in the best interest of Scott Air Force Base."

So this shows they had a significant asbestos problem at the base.

The report also shows asbetos in many of the buildings where his work reports and buddy statements indicate he did work that exposed him to asbestos. (Both the work reports and buddy statements name specific buildings)

He recieved treatment for his cancer from the Base doctors.

The oncologist on the initial report states " : “The patient’s past history is somewhat remarkable in that he worked as an electrician in the air force and was exposed to asbestos."

The Pulmonologist states in his doctor notes:

2001 Notes:

“CXR rpt seen > Upper Lobe Scarring & 3 cm Left Lung SPN

Also likely asbestos exposure as electrician 1969 – 1982

N.B. – Chart & Consult & pt. Is in Error & pt. In Non-Small Cell CA & Not Small Cell. Important Differences explained to pt. e. g. Poss. Adeno CA unk 1 ° ? “ attac

Former Smoker – Best is 1.4 Times

Current smoker 10

Asbestos 8

Together – 80 ß Now “

2003 notes:

"Hx of Lung Cancer. S/P resection at SLU September 00

3 cm & LLL-ectomy. Adeno CA. Smoker & Asbestos Exposure.

Impr. – 1. Poss Adeno CA Stump Recurr

2. 1st CA 2000

3. Exposure Cigs & Asbestos > 80 x’s Risk"

My hsband also had a diagnoses of pathology proven Interstial Lung Disease.

So I think our case for asbestos exposure is pretty strong - even though the VA examiner who didn't even SEE my husband stated there is no evidence that he was exposed to asbestos because he wasn't part of any occupation health screenings (which were not STARTED until 1988)

That kind of ticks me off - not just for my husbands sake --but many of the guys who are now getting asbestos related illnesses were exposed PRIOR to the Asbetos Management Plans being in effect (so they had no protection for the asbestos exposure) -yet the VA doesn't even KNOW WHEN those went into effect -- and just deny people because they weren't part of screenings that weren't in existence at that time.

This could affect A LOT of Vets -- and the VA SHOULD know when the military STARTED protecting their soldiers from asbestos -- and take that into account - rather than merely denying people because "if they weren't a part of the occupational screening programs -- they couldn't have been exposed to asbestos."

Free

We had a case last year here- where the widow's husband-Vietnam vet- died of lung cancer and MOPH told her this would be an award of DIC.

The VA denied-

Lung cancer claims due to AO exposure are only those that involve specific types of cancers - adendosarcomas etc-

I posted the listed here many times -it is also at the NVLSP web site and within VA's AO regs.

Also- cancer from asbestoes exposure also involves specific types of cancers.

Guam, Thailand,Okinawa vets etc- who have succeeded with AO claims have had two criteria met-

they proved that their duties or MOS put them into exposure and then they proved-by buddy statements-that the AO was used where they said they were exposed.

And they also proved that they had an AO presumptive illness such as an STS cancer on the AO list of presumptive disabilities.

I have an asbestos vet who has a form of cancer known to be caused by asbestos,

never smoked,no post service occupation involving asbestos-

had two MOS occupations in the Navy-one that had probable and the other highly probable exposure confimed for each MOS on the VA PIES list for Navy asbestos vets-and also we sent as evidence the VA asbestos regs,VA's statements on ships with asbestos, and also copy of a lawsuit where the man had won millions due to the exact same type of cancer which he proved was from asbestos.

Also I accessed his ship and found it had been dumped off coast of Iran as it contained too much asbestos and would have been too costly for Navy to remove it all.We sent that print out too. Still waiting for decision-

If you claim the AO- his exposure has to be confirmed- but the cancer must be on the AO STS list.

If you claim asbestos- that too must be clearly defined as due to asbestos exposure and then you need to prove his inservice occupation caused asbestos exposure.

His medical records will define what type of cancer he had and then it can be researched to see if this is either potential AO cancer or asbestos cancer.

Some of the vets here were in the old AO lawsuit-in 1991- like my husband and me-

at that time the court sent a detailed map where confirmed spraying had occurred-still my husband had to pinpoint exactly where he was and when-Ashau Valley -1965-1966- and describe what exposure he got and how.

He could identify the planes it came from, the affects to the tropical forest they were reconnoitering, and gave a good timeline.It remained in their utilities for weeks. It could all be verified by the court.

My point is this was before the presumptive VA AO regs came out-

it is basically what a non -in country Vietnam (some Korea Army vets are AO presumptive also)or their widow has to do to service connect disability or death to AO.

I used to email back and forth with Lane Evans-I have been involved with the AO issue since the early 1990s.Still- the documentation available-I have plenty- does not help prove AO exposure or AO disability for any individual veteran.

AO disability or death is proven by:

1. disability or cause of death proven to be AO presumptive by AO regs or very strong medical opinion with full medical rationale-

2. proven exposure to Agent Orange by inservice MOS or duties.