Va Fraud.."smoking Gun"

[broncovet]

I recently got a VARO decision from Cleveland RO with a St. Petersburg RO cover page. This seemed more than a little peculiar, and I have been thinking why would this would happen? I am fairly sure these decisions are printed on computer, with the "default" cover page, being the local Regional Office.

Of course, this is a mistake, and I cant help but wonder why one RO would log into another RO's database? To help Veterans? To speed up the claim? Frankly the RO does not give a rip about Veterans.

(Yes I know RO's "farm out" their claims to other RO's, and mine has been farmed out to Virginia and Philadelphia. However, in each case, they told me about it. This time, they did not "farm me out" to St. Pete) Also, when I was "farmed out" to Roanoake RO, Roanoke did all the development and leg work, but then it was sent back to Cleveland for a decision.

I think the most likely reason is VA employee related fraud. To me, it is a "smoking gun".

When I put it in context, the whole thing makes sense: The VARO's denies deserving Veterans, funnels this money into "fake" claims, with large retros, (they have already been caught at doing this!), then "covers it up" by spreading the fake claims, with large retros over multiple Regional Offices, so it does not look like it is coming from one particular VARO. Of course, this would take lots of people in different cities all working this fraud together, but the "fraud pie" would be big enough for many to partake.

YES, I know this all sounds crazy, BUT WHY ELSE would regional Offices be so motivated to delay and deny our claims by the bushel basket full and even shred them? I would like opinions! I have no proof..just a decision from Cleveland with ST. Pete cover page and THOUSANDS of DEserving VETS being denied and delayed.

Edited January 11, 2009 by broncovet

[carlie]

I sure wish that the decision makers that make errors due to being under-trained

would at least make the errors in favor of the claimant.

I also, do not feel there is a vast hidden agenda.

I do feel that the VA is aware that as long as they can keep the circles going

the claimant may just give up.

I also feel like the digital signs that are out front of VA hospitals

stating, we thank you veterans and we are here to serve you,

are lips service.... in many cases.

jmho,

carlie

[broncovet]

Great point Carlie! This was brought up when the grocery stores were charging the wrong price for items with the scanners..It was pointed out that 98% of the time the "wrong price" was in the grocery stores favor.

It would be logic that the "wrong price" would be just as likely to be less..UNLESS the stores "forgot" to change the price..in their favor.

In a similar way, if it were just errors, it looks like there would be millions of Vets collecting more benefits than they are supposed to!

I dont like the "conspiracy" word. It would only take say 2 or 3 or a half dozen crooked management to pull off a massive Veterans theft.

..oh well, I am not pretending to be completely sane, yea, I do think VA managers (some have already been convicted of fake claims and dividing the pie) are probably stealing from Veterans..I can see no other real good reason for tens of thousands of deserving Vets being delayed/denied.

[broncovet]

Teac..

Of course what you said is true that for every crooked VA employee there are hundreds of honest ones. However, that is like saying it does not hurt to have a family member murdered, because for every murderer there are hundreds of non-murderers.

That does not mean that if it was your loved one who was murdered you would not one the person responsible to pay for his/her crime.

I dont want honest employees to pay for stealing money from Vets..I think there are a few key managers with other RO passwords who are robbing us blind. Kind of like the Wall Street guy who stole something like 50 billion..sure he had help, too, just like the few crooks in Regional Offices.

I think those crooks have outsmarted us..its a "white collar..e-crime", but it is costing Vets billions.

[Teac]

Teac..

Of course what you said is true that for every crooked VA employee there are hundreds of honest ones. However, that is like saying it does not hurt to have a family member murdered, because for every murderer there are hundreds of non-murderers.

That does not mean that if it was your loved one who was murdered you would not one the person responsible to pay for his/her crime.

I dont want honest employees to pay for stealing money from Vets..I think there are a few key managers with other RO passwords who are robbing us blind. Kind of like the Wall Street guy who stole something like 50 billion..sure he had help, too, just like the few crooks in Regional Offices.

I think those crooks have outsmarted us..its a "white collar..e-crime", but it is costing Vets billions.

First your comparision is way off the way.

second were not going to agree so lets move on......cause I know there is no conspiricy

[Hoppy]

Ron,

The idea of hidden agendas is both an individual problem and a system wide problem. It is specific to individuals within the system. Prior to about 1990 the problem was so bad that the DAV and other organization lobbied and were successful in having teams adjudicate claims rather than individuals. Teams can only minimize the problem. It is a question of probability that people with hidden agendas might wind up on the same team. The entire concept of hidden agendas was identified by the DAV and brought to the attention of congress. The evidence is in hearing testimony given to congress during committee hearings. I lost this testimony two hard drives ago. If you have more questions about this call a DAV rep that has been around for 30 years.

The system wide problem is the fact as I described that claims are not reviewed by doctors who are chosen by the claimants advocate. The VA advocates do not even have a relationship with doctors who they trust will work for the veteran. Injured workers who are processed under workers comp have way more protections than military personnel veterans. I have been a qualified injured worker under comp law two times. I went to a private school to learn how to develop evidence for workers comp claims. I can assure you that the system used to develop evidence by an attorney in the workers comp. system is far superior to what the VA and the military uses. The comp attorney's I worked with would never allow a case to go to a judge with exams performed by doctors chosen at random or doctors chosen by and paid for by the employer.

The non adversarial system developed by the powers that be has been the target of much criticism by disability advocates. The system wide hidden agenda is that congress; the military and the VA have not stepped up to the plate and taken action to get veterans directed to claimant advocates who choose the doctors they trust will represent the claimant. VA claims are won and lost on medical evidence. The lawyers who work for the VA dissect every word used by a doctor. Many claims are denied based on terminology issues. I have heard of claims where linguists were hired to interpret doctor’s reports. It is imperative that the doctors and claimant advocates work closely together to get the reports in the proper format. I have a friend who right now is trying to get evidence for his claim. The SO tells him what the report needs to say. He then goes to the doctor who wants to argue with him because the doctor thinks he knows what the report should say. This problem cost me two years of delays on my claim.

Had I been represented at the time of my discharge by the attorney who represented me in one of my industrial injury claims I guarantee you I would have been service connected 26 years earlier than I was by depending on SO's and the VA system. I truly feel that I was cheated out of 26 years of benefits by a system that is inferior to parallel systems used by other agencies.

When I was discharged I was a mechanic and depended on the resources around me who were far more educated than I was. Unfortunately, the VA system did not work for me and later the workers compensation system did work for me. 22 years after my discharge I was told by union attorneys, my employer attorneys and attorneys from the EEOC that the life threatening vascular disease that I developed as a result military service made it impossible for an employer to provide me with the protections I need to work safely. As a result I lost a high paying civil service job and was told I was not eligible for voc. Rehab. 26 years after discharged I learned that the condition I was diagnosed with in the military was diagnosed in error and I filed a VA claim. After two bogus denials based on false objective standards of law and gross incompetence I found hadit. With the help of two attorneys who posted on hadit I was able to win my claim. It took 8.5 years for the VA to get my claim adjudicated properly. I will spare you the details of how I survived during that 8.5 years.

Edited January 13, 2009 by Hoppy

[broncovet]

Hoppy...great post! I used to think, like the naysayers, that the VA was all about helping Veterans and wanted to expidite my claim..they were just "to busy". However, that was 4 regional office denial decisions, 2 "lost" NOD's, and almost 8 years ago.

Incredibly, I won my BVA appeal back in 2004, and the Regional Office has issued 3 of those denials since then. One of them, they didnt call a denial, they called it an "award of 0%". The courts have already decided that was illegal, but regulations did not stop the VA from doing this to me. The RO's interpret the regulations in order to further their own agenda. This court case shows that they cant do that:

"There is little doubt that the claimant seeking disability compensation who receives an award of service connection,an effective date, and a 0% disability rating (with no compensation) will wonder how the claim for compensationcould be considered substantiated. See United States v Wilson, 503 U.S. 329, 336-37 (1992)"

I "won" the appeal, then figured the RO would award benefits based on the BVA appeal. NOPE.I cant pay my bills with a BVA award. Its that "hidden agenda" you mentioned.

There is a HUGE "BLACK HOLE" in the system: You send your NOD to the Regional Office, not the BVA, when you dispute the decision. Then, the RO decides whether or not to shred your NOD. The Cleveland RO office shredded 2 of my NOD's. So, I sent a "Special Claims Handling" request, because of mishandled documents to the Regional Office that shredded the first 2 NOD's. It is like the wolf gaurding the chicken house and providing an account of "how many chickens". And, the wolf says there are no chickens missing, but I know better.