Suicidal Ideation

[Berta]

I had a call from a local friend about  a PTSD  vet 700 miles away who a relative is seeking help for.

The vet appears to have suicidal ideation.

I gave all the help I could to the person 700 miles away they have expressed suicidal thought to but this does not appear to be an imminent situation---3rd part info...by help I mean what they could do to help this vet.

But I have had suicide calls from vets, that needed imme4diate action.

The first thing is really the best thing to do. Call 911.

But if you can assess the situation better, you can successfully talk them down and then get them to the closest VAMC.

I don’t advise that however unless you know them well and determine if they are suicidal or just needing someone to talk to, and you can give them the Suicide Hot line # as well…

https://www.veteranscrisisline.net/

Actually Call 911 if you don't know what to do.........I was lucky.....in most cases I dealt with I knew these vets personally and very well and could take them right over to the local VAMC. God was with me.

This is one of many reasons however I never give out my contact info here anymore.

We are not MH professionals.

 

 

[Buck52]

JMO

I think there is a difference between trying to kill your self and having thoughts about it...when a veteran try's to kill himself and don't succeed but harms himself, cutting wrist or trying to blow his head off misses  and someone intervenes to save this veteran life  when this happens call the Police and they will take the veteran to the VA, VA Will place that veteran in a room and watch him,until he has a right frame of mind and start treatments ASAP.

All of this will be recorded and place into the veterans medical records

Usually 

[ArNG11]

Buck I have to say a documented police report is worth a great deal.  This was just in my case and predicament. Details have immense power when coupled with the right medical records and police reports.

A young Captain who was treating me at Tinker never correctly documented my medical records.  I know this because I could not find any instance of our discussion relating to this incident. They were not in my records with this doctor.  It was here at this point that I gave up on the VA and military based care.  (This is just my experience,  I have received excellent care from on-base doctors at times, just not this particular one for mental health).  

I believe it was that police report that changed the outcome of my mental health claim.

 

 

[Andyman73]

So then, suicide ideation is just false hope???

[Guest L]

@Andyman73- "false" hope meaning a better chance for a claim to be approved.?

.. not sure, but it is a part of the symptomatology of a diagnosis - if that is what you are asking. 

[broncovet]

There are many ways of defining SI, but "false hope" would not be included in my defination, and I dont recommend it be included in yours.   In reference to VA benefits, If you look at the criteria for mental health disorders, SI is listed "only" in the 70 percent and 100 percent categories.    The lower ratings, that is, below 70 percent, do not include the term "SI".    If one did have documented SI, then an appeal could cite a doctors report, if/where SI is documented in their  appeal.  Remember, VA has to rate you on the criteria.    If you read a lot of Veterans case law, then you will see that, in the case of mental health disorders, you do not have to have all or even some of the 100 percent category criteria.  In the critera, VA uses terms like "such as" not remembering ones own name.  Does that mean if you know your own name you can get rated for 100 percent?  No, a thousand times no.  Mental health disorders have very widely variable sysmptoms, and some of these do preclude employment.  The VA "fights" for its own "judgement call" on these percentages.  It used to be that you could use a GAF number that your doc may have assigned to you which was supposed to reflect your current state of mental health.  The VA fought for this...so, if your doc assigns you a gaf of 20, for example, that does not guarantee you will get 100 percent.  You could get 100 percent for a GAF of 50, of 20, or if your doctor never assigned you a GAF score.  

Personally, I liked the GAF score once I understood it, and could compare it to the last time I saw the doc.  

Years ago, you had to have a "plan" to get rated for SI.  However, since still about 20 or so Vets take their own life everyday, the VA started taking our words more seriously.  Of course, not every person who has SI actually follows through with that, and, lets hope even more do not follow through.  

My wife explained suicide as a "permanent" answer to a temporary problem.   She used the example of the teenager who said she would "die" if she did not get into xx college.   

Unfortunately, she followed through and took her own life.  About a week later...there was the letter...accepting her into that college which was her first choice.    This is not the only time when this drastic action is taken, and it was later found out that what ever it was that was bugging them, "went away".    

God never gives a big problem that is too big for us to handle, altho sometimes it takes his help to deal with it.  That's ok, tho, to be humbled and have to ask the boss for help with your problem.   Some of us need that humility, we get a bit too big for our own britches, as my mother would say it.   

[Andyman73]

On 7/1/2017 at 7:06 PM, L said:

@Andyman73- "false" hope meaning a better chance for a claim to be approved.?

.. not sure, but it is a part of the symptomatology of a diagnosis - if that is what you are asking. 

Meaning I know what I told my therapist over the past 2 years and what I told the examiner...which should have gotten me a 70% rating. But they gave me 50%, so false hope. Just like when that Marine caught me in the act. No proof that ever happened.  My division chief made no record, he was a Marine Captain. He sent me to see the base Chaplain, a Marine Colonel...who also made no record of it. And no psych eval or anything.

This is just like that!!! Once again, the most serious symptoms are ignored and I am yet again feeling invisible and ignored.