Ascomdepot68

Berta Thanks for the come back. I have been in touch with the ASCOM vet you referred to. One of my points is that the JSRRC was NOT contacted by the VA. On the other had I did a FOIA request to JSRRC on April 1, 2011: Requested copy: "any product(s) of data compilation of any and all types inclusive of those in electronic form or format, mad or received by any agency of the United States as relates to the receipt, shipment, transhipment, or storage of the product popularly referred to as Agent Orange at, thru, to, or from the country of South Korea, to specifically include the US Army ASCOM Depot, APO 96220, which was located near Bupyong, South Korea, during the period January 1, 1960 to January 1, 1987." JRSSC responded on May 13, 2011 "Unfortunately, we are unable to provide you with the documents you have requested. Because we are not a central records repository, we do not maintain documents concerning the receipt, shipment, storage, or transhipment of Agent Orange at, through, to, or from South Korea. The Defense Logistics Agency (DLA) formerly the Defense Supply Agency (DSA) acquired Agent Orange for the military services through contracts awarded, by then named the Defense General Supply Center. We were informed by the DLA that their Records Schedule provides for retention of contract and transportation records and files for, at the longest, a period of six years and 3 months after final payment under the contract. When lawsuits regarding claims for injuries related to Agent Orange were initially filed by veterans in the 1980's DLA contract records and files from the Vietnam era had already largely been disposed of and were unavailable. For additional information, please contact the Defense Logistics Agency at 8000 Jefferson Davis Highway, Richmond, Virginia 23297. We do not consider our response a denial of information under the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) We are complying with the FOIA requirements by providing you with the agency that would likely have the information concerning the records you desire" (I love government doubletalk- they said they don't have it, so we have done our part in telling you to contact them!).. I believe I contacted the DLA anyway but at the moment I can't locate the file. I do know if I did, it was not a "good" contact or I would not still be battling. Yes, studying other's cases can give insight and research hints.I'll look into the cases you mentioned. Lately I am getting bewildered by the task. When I get to the point of screaming, I walk a mile. Cuts the stress and anger. Lately I have been walking a lot! Thanks

Berta Thanks for the response; I don't know what they mean either, I copied from an email from one VA employee to another VA employee. The email was included in my copy of c-file that I requested. Without giving out any names, here is the text of the email. Sent , Wednesday February 16, 2011 Subject: Korea "Please see the new regulation published last month. Section 3.307 )a) (6) (iv) was added : iv. A veteran who during active military, naval or air service served between April 1, 1968, and Ausgust 31, 1971 in a unit that, as determined by the Department of Defense, operated in or near the Korean DMZ, in an area in shich herbicides are known to have been applied during that period, sheall be presumed to have been exosed during such service to an herbicide agent unless there is affirmative evidence to establish that the veteran was not exposed to any such agent during that service Also, please see the Veterans Service Center Manager's call agenda from May 2010 which says that these Korea expoxure claims are not to be sent to the AO mailbox.The only difference or addition to the VSCM call is that the dates above are the new dates to use when determining Korean exposure." It was sent by an C&P employee outbased in St Petersburg FL in reply to the email below: "Please review DoD's inventory of herbicied ioperations to determine whether herbicides were used as alleged. Veteran's Information (redacted for this message) The veteran alleges exposure to herbicides while assigned to HHC & HQ Compay USA ASCOM Depot, APO San Francisco 96220 in Korea from March 25, 1968 to March 27, 1969. The veteran states he came in contact with Agent Orange when he examined/handled damaged containers/ A review of the veteran's personnel records shows that he was assigned to HHC USA Ascom Depot (5757) APO 96220 from March 28, 1968 to March 27, 1969. If additional ifnormation is needed please contact me." I have several problems with this exchange and the general procedures followed. #1 I am trying fo prove direct exposure at a place in Korea not on the DMZ. #2 This and other messages use words like "operation" , "use", "spraying" etc when the VA "looks" internally and elsewhere for info. I am merely attempting to show that AO was "stored" and "spilled" there, nothing else. The top email from the AO mailbox was in response to the lower email sent by a member of the Nehmer Adjudication (NDN team) St petersburg Regional Office. The outbased VA employee at the AO mailbox was at the St Pete RO also. For the first 8 months of my claim I was mistakenly classed as a Nehmer case apparently because someone early on did not understand Korea is not in Vietnam and even despite being told in writing by a VA employee that I was not a 681 but a 110 I was still classed as 681 as late as 02/14/2011. I was denied my claim for IHD due to exposure to AO at ASCOM Depot which was about 18 miles south of the DMZ, 5 miles east of Inchon, and about 12 miles west of Seoul. ALL the AO in Korea came thru there whether from Inchon or Kimpo. The government has long destroyed the records, given AlLL the depot proper back to Korea, and thus far refuses to admit the reality of the situation- the AO and other herbicides used on the DMZ and elsewhere did not appear magically in a backpack. If you have any idea of where or how I can locate whatever they are talking about please let me know, I would appreciate it. -VSCM call agenda from May 2010

Where can I can "Veterans Service Center Managers' call agenda from May 2010" which relates to not forwarding Korea exposure claims to AO mailbox? Used "search" here but did not come up with it. Thanks.

Moved from Orlando to just east of Atlanta. On Sept 14 I made journey to Atlanta VAMC on Clairmont. Was 4th car on Clairmont turning into parking lot. Took me 1 hour and four minutes to wind my way waiting in the line to leave my car at the "complimentary valet parking" drop off spot in front. Transfer of info at cubicle #1 went smooth although I didn't understand if it was a transfer why the forms since I had just renewed in July but then it is the VA. Got a phone # to call to be assigned a team. When returned home I asked for Lawrenceville (only 17 miles) as opposed to Clairmont (31 miles) and got appointment there in early November. For some things I may have to go to Clairmont but the parking situation can't be as bad (I hope) in Lawrenceville. Stopped in the GA VA office there to ask a couple questions. Lady did not impress me, in fact she said some things that made me really question her competence. Had thought of letting them take over my 2nd claim but now don't think so. Was going over next door to VARO but with all the parking restrictions thought better of it. Besides pretty soon they may be calling me to come in for a chat. Better that way than a "cold" call.

Today, August 18, 2011 I received a letter from St Pete and 3 of the requested documents. Added info: #1 The documents they sent are ORIGINAL large scale maps/aerial photos I sent. They are not copies. Now the C-file (99% sure) is devoid of these documents, and not available for the DRO review or the appeal with BVA. I will be returning these documents with a demand they be RETAINED in the C-file. #2 Strange that #1 excuse given for original delay 1/12/2011 to 6/15/2011 in responding to Privacy Act request was that the file was unavailable for copying due to being with the developer/rater. Funny it only took them from August 3, 2011 to August 18, 2011 which included mailing time to come up with some of the documents when the file is supposed to be under review. #3 What St Pete doesn't know yet is that this morning the VA OGC received an appeal under Privacy Act for not sending complete C-file. Even with the 3 documents there is more lacking. Oh, well I gave them 30 days. We'll see what happens.

Filed claim 7/6/2010 for IHD due to exposure to AO in Korea (non DMZ), denied 4/4/2011. NOD on 4/18/2011. Filed 2nd claim on 4/28/2011 for #1 Hypothyroidism-secondary to IHD & esposure to AO (knowing it had been denied), #2 DJD in spine & neck #3 Serum sickness-anaphylactic shock-penicillin allergy #4 hearling loss & tinnitus left ear. My impression & opinion based on personal experience: #1 Decision on claims is slow due to in part to lack of attention to detail by personnel. Example: they waited 5 1/2 months before asking for records. In first line of claim says exposure was in KOREA. After nearly 6 months there is a note in my records that states "this is not a Nehmer claim, exposure was not in Vietnam" #2 Filed request for copy of C-file under Privacy Act on January 12, 2011. After several complaints to senator, iris, Sec Shinseki, etc. they sent me an incomplete file on 6/15/2011, missing at least 3 crucial documents I sent them and also in particular missing the requested copy of documentation where they claimed to have requested "herbicide exposure records". Filed appeal under Privacy Act. Contemplating hiring attorney, they can explain their actions at their cost. #3 On two ocassions personnel at St Petersburg have hung up on me.I won't accept phone calls from them now. #4 Before I shipped the copy of C-file (short as it was, but 666 pages) north, I learned that the file was, for the majority of the 9 months, not in the RO office but at a claims rep's house who was telecomputing! Nothing really wrong with that I guess but it somehow just seems wrong. In two weeks I will be transferring to another RO. Problem is if I give weight to the "views" on this site the RO I will be transferring to will be the second busiest. No problem, I started out there over 40 years ago, maybe they have some better people, in no way could they be worse. In any event I have my far future figured out and will be able to work on the near future when I get to what I consider a safe place. In fairness let me say the VAMC at Orlando is in my opinion first class all the way.

The information below is furnished in relation to Agent Orange at ASCOM Depot. Storage and presence of AO was/is at a place not currently recognized by the DoD as being admitted for presumptive exposure. I had made an earlier commitment to furnish the aerial photo by June 18, 2011. I had earlier posted the photo here and two other Korea AO related forums with a request for information and waited 2 months. All of the info is from me, no one had any info of signifigance. If you have any info to offer now or difference of opinion, contact me and I will consider. The photo is copyrighted by me. You are hereby granted a license to use this material for research and for applying for disability benefits. NO commercial use is permitted, without my express written permission. If you can get the photo on a CD or floppy disk (?), you can take it to Office Depot and have a 24"x24" black and white print made for less than $2.00 NEVER give up the fight for your benefits. Link to aerial photo with annotations: http://i1124.photobucket.com/albums/l564/EAGO7465/Asc68_Ca.jpg http://s1124.photobucket.com/albums/l564/EAGO7465/Asc68_Ca.jpg Areas 10 and 11 are where AO was spilled or seen, to that I can and have furnished a statement. Others for whatever reason could provide no significant input. This aerial photo was taken 2/7/1968. For a current (2011) aerial view of the area remaining, designated Camp Market , left after the Depot area and the rest of ASCOM City was returned to the Republic of Korea in 1973, go to wikimapia.org and put in latitude 37.495518828 and longitude 126.715879448 I had a link made up but for some reason, people were winding up in West Virginia Locations given refer to closest cross coordinates from edges of map, ie MM32 for marker 1, Gate #3. Location refers to marker. (This is a copy of the info I sent to the VA, not all markers are on this photo). 1 Gate #3, entrance to Hq&Hq Co, USA ASCOM Depot & MP Detachment (MM32) 2 Depot Headquarters 1968-1969, building #2156 (Y35) 3 Quality Assurance Directorate 1968 , building # 1604 (CC34) 4 Depot Security Office & Main Depot Entrance Gate vicinity, 1968 , immediately south and east of Gate #1a (EE28) 5-5 Railroad tracks into Depot , immediately west of Gate #2 (LL30) 6 Moat which ran across southern edge and the eastern edge of ASCOM Depot proper. For a photo of the wall abutting the moat see #51 below. The moat did not extend the full run of the southern wall, only perhaps maybe half. I call this a moat, engineers referred to as a “brook”. It ran generally NE from south of Sinchon across the southern eastern half of ASCOM Depot , up the eastern side and flowed out the northeastern corner of the depot (all outside the wall). There were several large runoff culverts from the depot into this “brook”. (ran under road at point LL26 traveling east to LL34 then NE to GG38 and then north to J43) 7 Location Asc16 & 17.jpg photo, both looking North from behind chapel #42 into Depot grounds, can see the Depot Headquarters (building #2156) and partial vehicle park area for ready to issue vehicles where AO was “stored” temporarily on trucks, refrigerated unit on right in photo was in front of Hq &Hq Co mess hall (building # 1640). (GG35) 8 Location Asc13.jpg photo, looking north from gate separating HHC & Depot, you can see Depot Headquarters (building #2156), the Quality Assurance Branch ( building #1604) is the second taller building on left, and the start of the vehicle issue park area where AO was sometimes present is on the right where the Area 40 sign was. (FF34) 9 Location Asc12.jpg photo, looking south from HHCo/depot gate to gate #3, first building on left on end nearest road was my sleeping quarters Oct 68-March 69. The second visible building on left was the unit supply room and my workplace for the same period. (GG34) 10-10 Vehicles for issue park area ran West-East, AO seen in rear of trucks here on several occasions (DD35 to 38) 11 Search area at end & W of rr tracks, type of coins found here (Asc2.jpg), AO spill here on at least two occasions. (NO35) 12-12 Area search for coins West-East, rear of depot. Searched all over but mostly 11 & 12. (L-M-N to 31-35) 13 Main Supply Route #2 (Incheon-Seoul) (not on smaller photo, is on larger photo) 14 To Seoul (not on smaller photo, is on larger photo) 15 To Incheon (not on smaller photo, is on larger photo) 16 Gyeyang Mountain , elevation 1302 ft, (about 4.6 miles due North of marker #1)(not on smaller or larger photo) (is on 1948 photo) 17 Train tracks to Bup-Yeong train station on way to Seoul (TT44) 18 Train tracks to Incheon (ZZ18) 19 Sincheon (WW16-19 & MM22-26) 20 Location Asc1.jpg photo (SS29) 21 Vicinity of GK house (TT30) 22 Vicinity of EBF house (YY29) 23 Location Asc3.jpg photo, Fuel depot* 24 First quarters EBF 3/68 to 10/68 building # 1673 (3rd quonset hut from gate)(II35) 25 Second quarters EBF 10/68 to 3/69 (opposite end from orderly room entrance) (nearest building in photo Asc12.jpg on left) (HH34) 26 Location Asc6.jpg photo, southernmost MP barracks in Hq &Hq Co compound (building 1682)& MP latrine, building #1683 (JJ36) 27 Orderly room Hq&Hq Co, USA ASCOM Depot, building # 1641 (HH34) 28 Supply room Hq&Hq Co, USA ASCOM Depot (second visible building in photo Asc12.jpg on left) Building # 1643 (II34) 29 EM Club, building # 1678 (JJ34) 30 Now-Buwon Middle School (2011) (KK32) 31 Now-Buwon Girls Middle School (2011) (JJ31) 32-32 Now- Bup Yeong Park, area was previously ROK Army Camp (see # 35) (WW20-OO31) 33-33 Now-East of this South to North line is now all apartments and 2 schools (#30 & #31) (MM30 to H38) 34-34 North of this West to East line is now all apartments to the road. North of that is a GM/Daewoo Plant. (N to U &20-43) 35-35 ROK Army Camp 1968-69 was a ROK army camp starting in 1946, have photo showing surrendered Japanese field artillery lined up near north edge) ( and see #32 now a park) (WW20 to OO31) 36-36 Co B, USA ASCOM Depot barracks vicinity, 1968-1969 (GG22) 37-37 Co A, USA ASCOM Depot barracks vicinity, 1968-1969 (HH24) 38 Main Post Exchange 1968-1969. Photo Asc52.jpg taken 1957, main PX was in same spot 1968-1969, building #1295 (F21) 39 177th Replacement Co (Enlisted) vicinity(800 beds), 1968. (U-BB-20-22) 40 NCO Club, building #1432 (MM20) 41 STRATCOM area (DD21) 42 Brick Chapel in Hq&Hq Co area was in 1948 photo and still standing in March 1969. Building #1638 (see Asc17.jpg) (GG34) 43 Photo Asc51.jpg was taken from about this location in 1957 and shows the southern wall across ASCOM Depot. (MM23) 44 Mess hall Hq & Hq Co, USA ASCOM Depot, building #1640 (HH35) 45 Gate #8 (NN21) 46 Dreamboat Club, see Asc10.jpg & Asc9.jpg photos, across road from gate #8 (NN21) 47 48 Main Theatre (GG20) 49 Quartermaster Laundry, building #1466 (KK16) 50 6th Medical Depot area (NN15-RR16) 51 121st Evac Hospital Motor Pool area (NN12) 52 Gate 1a, Main entrance to ASCOM Depot proper (EE28) 53 Location Asc11.jpg photo, taken from fence line aiming NE thru gate showing guard shack (GG34) 54 Depot maintenance section, Asc14.jpg photo, now included in Buwon Schools, see 30 &31 above (LL&HH -31to33) 55 21st Finance Co, 20th Gen Support, building #1430 (LL20) 56 20th General Support barracks (CC24) 57 20th General Support mess hall (BB24) 58 Think was location of Hq Co, 335th Maintenance Bn in 1968-69, now (2011) GM/Daewoo Plant (F-36) 59 8th Army Stockade (on large map only, not on small map, or Emap) 60 Sewage Disposal Plant (KK41-42) 61 Helipad 121st Evac Hospital (HH17) 62 121st Evac Hospital area (HH-JJ-MM-16-17) 63 Back depot gate, gate #4 (J40) 64 PDO (O28) 65 Baseball field (JJ25) 66 Softball field (KK34) 67 Gate #7 (RR17) 68 Gate #23 (never opened in 12 months I was there) (GG38) 69 Gate #5* 70 Gate #7a (pedestrian labor gate) (RR17) 71 Water treatment Plant (MM11) 72 Gate #1 (LL26) 73 Gate #1a (EE28) 74 Gate #9* 75 Gate #10 (Q12) 76 Gate #11 (U12) 77 Gate #12 (U12) 78 Gate #13 (TT15) 79 Gate #2 (MM31) 80 Gate #6* 81 POL Dump (OO17) Cut and pasted most of this from an email sent about a week ago to those who had contacted me. Hope everything works out or not will edit and try again. Just don't want to type the whole thing over. If anyone needs copies of photos referred to, contact me.

I received a phone call from the St Pete VARO at about 1100 today while I was out. I had requested NO phone calls because the last two times the calls ended badly. My sister who took the call said the guy ("Ed") had left a message for me that a person at the call center would be able to read to me, so I returned the call. A little history first. I filed for IHD due to exposure to AO on 7/6/2010 and was denied 4/4/2011. Filed a NOD which they received 4/18/2011 and asked for a DRO before sending to BVA. I also filed a second claim on 4/28/2011 for Hypothyroidism -secondary to IHD (yes they had allready denied IHD), for DJD on my back and neck, for tinnitus, and for serum sickness/penicillin allergy developed in service. Also noted on eBenefits posted under claims is a Freedom of Information/Privacy Act request made on 1/12/2011. The lady I spoke with said the message was that my request for the entire C-file made under the Privacy Act was ready to be sent for duplication. Knowing (?) the VA, after the call I went to the eBenefits to see if the status had changed from "Under Development" on the C-file thing. It had not. I check the eBenefits every day, sometimes 2-3 times, not thinking anything will change but it is something to do. On 6/9/2011 the only thing under "CLOSED" was the compensation claim filed on 7/6/2011. Today at about 1200 hours there are 2 listings. The second one reads: "Special Correspondence Claim received on 4/1/2011" and CLOSED 6/10/2011" Does anyone have any insight into "Special Correspondence Claims" and any idea why this was just slipped in as it was closed?? It does say Yes under appealable, but appeal what?? I do not want to call the VARO. I will not be hung up on again! And "iris" had not been fruitful for me either, just form responses. What are the chances a copy of the "Special Correspondence Claim" will be included when and if I receive my C-file copy?

Previously I had sought information here as confirming the presence of AO at ASCOM Depot near Bupyong, South Korea. I know it was there and a few other persons have contacted me, but not like I hoped. I had promised to publish the photo here with what information I gathered not later than July 18, 2011. I still desire first hand knowledge. The photo is published here below through a link. The photo was taken February 7, 1968 and I have placed letters and numerals on all sides. If you have first hand information especially on AO on the depot please contact me with the "coordinates" and a short story of what, when, how, etc. I also welcome comments concerning the location of where you ate, slept, worked, even frequented a bar. I have placed three locations on the photo to try to give you some bearings. #3 is the ASCOM Depot Headquarters building, #38 is the Main Post Exchange, and #40 is the Main NCO Club by Gate #8. I will update the photo as I attain credible information. Thanks. http://i1124.photobucket.com/albums/l564/EAGO7465/Asc68_C.jpg PS; Sorry for top posting by starting a new topic, the old one is down aways. 130,000 came thru there in 1968-1971, other people need the information also.

Papa Go to the va.gov website. Select forms. Type in 21-0960C. That will give you the questionaire for Parkinson's Disease. Best wishes.

Could you please post a link to the spreadsheet? Is it specific to each RO or are they all available from this one resource? Thanks.

Just sitting here thinking about what to do next. Going over all my paperwork and list of requests, congressional, FOIA, PA, etc. I am not clairvoyant but something (?) told me to check eBenefits. Spent 255 days in Development phase. Today it changed to Decision phase. Am hopeful but fully expect denial. Will just keep on plodding ahead and try to be prepared for the next try. Even if I'm approved I have another 3 claims to put in for and I will be working on my second goal, getting ALL Army (and some USAF) approved for AO presumptive in Korea for 1968-69 , not just those on the DMZ. Yes, I know the dated has changed to August 1971 but I would be appreciative of a small but yet huge victory. I calculate 67,200 in those 2 years. Is there anyplace on the web where I can view various RO's processing times??? I'd like to know if 255 days is within the bracket or if I may have done something to speed things up? What it may have been I have no idea, but don't need to worry about it unless I'm far out of the average.

Papa & stillhere For what its worth here is an excerpt from the cover letter accompanying the personnel records (13 pages) I got from NPRC. "Dear Sir or Madam Thank you for contacting the National Personnel Records Center. Enclosed are the personnnel records requested. However the medical record requested is not at this center. We suggest that you contact the nearest VA Regional Office to obtain copies of the medical records. If a claim has been filed with the VA it would be helpful to include the VA claim number when contacting them. .................." On the other hand NARA, the National Archives and Records Administration, of which NPRC is a part claimed in a separate letter and matter that they puzzled at what the VA was waiting for "as we do not loan out records in our care". The two mix like oil and water. IMO I think it would be best if NPRC sent the VA a copy only of the records and kept the original complete 201 file to include the medical portion. That way if there should be another fire or the records get lost in the mail (don't know what carrier they use) or theVA decides to shred your file, there would be something to go back to and something to copy and send instead of chasing the only copy available. But that's just how I would do things. I requested a copy of my entire C file from VARO at St Petersburg under the Privacy Act on January 10 and I'm still waiting. They claim to have 600 requests. I guess their copier is broke. When the 28th comes I will resend my Privacy Act appeal that is now at the VA General Counsel to the 4 Florida members of the House committee on Veterans Affairs. Oh, well.

SP4RVN1971 Basically your EF (Ejection Fraction) is the measure of ability of your heart to pump out blood on the left side of your heart. As far as I know it is measured only on an echocardiogram, it doesn't get measured by normal stress test. A persons normal EF is 50-55, when you get below 35 you are a candidate for a defibralator. You may want to check the ratings schedule on this site but I seem to remember that under cardiovascular section it will give you the brackets that different EF and METs will rate out for disability. 10.1 for your MET's is if I remember correctly very high to be considered for disability, its only when your get down into the 3-6 range. Again working off memory here, Check with your personal doctor for what he/she says as for both your EF and MET's. Not saying they would but the VA tends to cast the evidence in their favor and not yours. Yes, the disability is based on the date of initial filing. I guess the message there is at the first sign of any complaint is to file,that way if it eventually becomes an issue its on record and would for payment purposes be retroactive. Of course GIs that I know and knew were not ones to complain about the small things (as in that famous Vietnam call "it ain't no big thing!". I think sincere people tend to not want to complain. When and if it comes to bite them then they feel bewildered and betrayed.

Carlie "publish the photo now without any input except mine and maintain credibility for the photo at a later date" What I meant by that was if I publish the photo now it has only my info on it, it won't have any additional input from anyone else, then it defeats the purpose of asking others to contribute, and in the end would only go to show that 1 person (me) saw it, touched it, whatever. I'm not looking for 25, 50, or 1000 people to chime in and say "Yes, I saw it there also". I'm looking for statements but statements totally independent of others info. Sort of like getting 100 birthday cards versus getting one signed by 100 people. Here the knowledge equals the thought. The photo is on my computer and will be published here and now 2 other sites not later than July 18, 2011, and that is whether I get any responses or not, but I would like the opportunity to succeed first before I concede defeat. If I get 10 responses ( total from all 3 sites) the date will shorten correspondingly.

Berta Yes, I have been to the other website before. After your message I revisited again and read all 166 posts. Only 2 of those posts even touched my definition of possibilities, but I will post a message there also. Seems like people searching for AO info for their claims do a lot of floundering around in their search. Most of the info there is for DMZ but I will post in the hopes that I could reach just one person. Thanks.

Carlie Yes, I realize the response will be limited but at this stage I am only seeking pertinent information and I can get that only from those who were actually there at the time. Also, sending the photo will cost me about $8 a pop. I would be happy with just 5 responses, 10 would be better, more than that I would be estatic. The problem I have found is that in trying to contact others who claim AO exposure is that for the most part they just don't answer, I don't know if its because they passed on or if it's just a case of " I got mine, now you get yours", or what. If I do get my rating I would hope that I don't forget my brothers and sisters in arms and will at least be willing to listen and help if I can. Although my focus is only on ASCOM Depot where I was stationed my second Korea tour, the effort is secondarily for ALL Korea Army vets who passed thru ASCOM from 1967 (?)-1970. If I can submit proof acceptable to the VBA or Congress that the ground and therefore the water supply was contaminated then the 25,000 plus who passed through there per year could be eligible much in the same way as "boots on the ground" in Vietnam. If you have any ideas on how I could publish the photo now without any input except mine and maintain credibility for the photo at a later date I would at least like to hear your idea.

I have acquired an aerial photo of US Army ASCOM Depot and need assistance in placing AO information on the depot. I will mail a hard copy of the 24"x24" photo by 1st class mail to those persons who can meet the following criteria: Be either in class 1 or 2 or 3: Class 1: Military assigned to Hq & Hq Co, A Co, or B Co US Army ASCOM Depot near Bupyong Korea in 1967-1970. or Class 2: Were a Department of the Army Civilian based on USA ASCOM Depot in 1967-1970 or Class 3: Picked up or delivered AO in barrels or other containers from or to USA ASCOM Depot in 1967-1970 AND Be either a person in class 4 and/or class 5: Class 4: Worked in the building or in the yard where AO and herbicides were stored on USA ASCOM Depot in 1967-1970. and or Class 5: You personally saw or touched the barrels of AO. If you touched the barrels you must be able to explain by reason of your MOS, job assignment, detail particulars, etc. what specifically brought you into direct contact. AND BOTH CLASS 6 & 7: Class 6: Willing and able to provide specific details by email (after receiving the aerial photo) and describe what you saw, did, or touched referencing the photo, i.e. "I saw AO in barrels at point LL26" or "I helped move 25 barrels of AO from point BB6 to point Q7" or "I helped offload AO at point B12". Class 7: Willing to make and deliver a sworn statement as to what you personaly observed, did, touched, contacted, etc in reference to AO at ASCOM Depot. What you were told by others, what you read, etc is heresay and irrelevant. After receiving a suitable amount of information I will provide a digital copy encompassing all information received to those who responded and met the above criteria. I will not provide piecemeal information as it might tend to influence ones memory or the issue. If you can not provide information or just wish to have an aerial photo of the depot you can email me and I will place you on a list to receive the same digital photo at a later date. Since I have no idea of how many replys I will receive nor the information, I cannot provide at present a timeframe, but it will be released here and one other site not later than 100 days (June 18, 2011).

SP4RVN1971 What was your EF (ejection fraction) on your latest echocardiogram? What is your latest METS reading?

Papa Can you access eBenefits? If so go online and request your 201 records. Be specific in what you request! When the box pops up tell them you want your entire 201 file, both personnel and medical. Tell them you already have your DD214. Tell them your records do not fall within the reported fire loss of the 1973 fire. For USAF the reported portion lost was " surnames begining with H-Z who were discharged Sept 25, 1947 to December 31. 1963". I don't know what your surname begins with but since you say you were discharged February 1972 your records do not fall within the reported lost category. Put it in there, be specific, and tell them they will have to look. Don't give them the easy way out of just sending a "form" response. If you do your request online, you will need to send in one of the two forms they will email to you, just be sure to send the right one, it's for signature authorization/verification. If you can't do it online put the same stuff into a letter and send it off. The online should take about 3 weeks I don't quite get what you mean about your discharge dates and the 6-12 months. If they did hold your records locally for 12 months that would have put them the just about in time for the July 12, 1973 fire Since the "loss" is also supposedly also dependant on discharge date you should have skated regardless of your surname. Your profile says you are at 50%. Did the VA search for your records or was the disability based on the DD214 and a presumptive location? Did you have any special assignments or duties in the AF that would give rise to them keeping your records off the grid? Did you sign a " Servicemen's Statement Concerning Application For Compensation From The Veteran's Administration" DA Form 664 or the USAF equivalent(?) in all the papers thrust at you on discharge. Maybe your file went to the VA right away and never made it to NPRC in St Louis?? The original DA form 664 is attached to SF88 and forwarded to the Adjutant General (in the Army), USAF (?). Don't give up, your half way (50%) there.

Papa I second what Berta asked about ,have you checked directly with St Louis. I remember years ago requesting my military records from NPRC. Back then I got a form response that my records had been lost in the fire. Had to go to National Archives and Records Administration to get copies of my DD214s. I would suggest you write a request or at least go online and request your personnel and medical records from NPRC in St Louis. I would also make a Privacy Act request to NARA for anything they have. So in the 1970's I got a no and now in 2011 I get copies Makes you wonder if all the mess is by design or just laziness or what. If at first you don't succeed, throw a grenade (you in the USAF can use a bomb) and while they are getting settled again sneak around the left, right, top, or bottom and keep at it until you get what you need. Part of my strategy is ask the same thing to several agencies. If you ask oten enough and make your terms variable, eventually you will find a person who actually doesn't know what he/she is doing and send you what you asked for. Berta I understand what you were saying about never having seen any records showing exposure to AO. Exactly my point. Is there a reasonable chance for them to acquire such records or is it just a key to punch to get a claim off their desk. I am sure there are some good people working at the VA, just that I have not had the privilege meeting any. So far my direct contacts have been mediocre to very poor. My biological father worked for the VA from 1948-1954 in Marietta, GA at the Insurance Premiums Department. He was 50%. My stepfather was 100% and after years of haggling with them finally told them to shove it. I can understand now why they had (?) a basic distrust of the same organizations they worked and fought for and I've only been at this for 8 months. I would like to stress my belief that everyone should base their exposure to AO at the core level, that of presence of AO as opposed to the actual use of or application of AO to an area. In my particular case I am claiming direct exposure to the liquid in 55 gallon drums on at least two ocassions primarily with possible secondary exposure to vapors in the air and contact externally and internally through water supplies over the period of a year. I realize I am at a distinct disadvantage because my exposure occured at a location 25 miles from the DMZ. Storage and spills/leakage is the point of my search, not being in a presumptive area that had been maybe sprayed. As to MOS, I agree it would be more helpful if if had a chemical MOS, but I do not. I was impressed to serve a lot of tasks in our office, of which only maybe 5% were directly related to my 45B40 MOS (Small Arms Repair Foreman). For example a personnel specialist that walked from our compound to the depot headquarters would have no seeming chance to be exposed but he/she walked past the same barrels in the rear of trucks in the ready to issue line that I and half the company passed on a daily basis. Yes, we have a more difficult task than the infantry soldier on the DMZ or the foot on the ground Vietnam soldier. But I am determined and convinced that it can be done. Just back from recopying those 16 letters home that the post office lost. Have to get those together to resend to VARO. Will check back later.

Requested copy of 201 file to include medical from NPRC on 2/11/2011, copied signature verification and mailed it out within an hour. They emailed back on 2/16/2011 that they had recived the signature authorization Today 3/4/2011 I received my 201 containing a whole 12 pages. #1 A cover letter which states medical record requested is not at center. (1 page) #2 DA Form 20 (Enlisted Qualification Record) (4 pages) #3 DD Form 373 (Consent declaration of Parent or Legal Guardian) (2 pages) (went in when I was 8 days short of 18) #4 DD Form 4 #1 (Enlistment Record) (2 pages) #5 DD Form 4 #2 (Enlistment Record) (2 pages) #6 Department of VA Request for Information. (no form # unless it is (3101 print (?)) Submitted 7/13/2010, Received 7/14/2010, Branch Completion date 7/19/2010 Request M01 Medical/Dental, Furnish Complete Medical/Dental Record (STRS) Response All Available Requested Records <<Mailed>> Request 036 Herbicides, Furnish Any Documents Showing Exposure To Herbicides Response 15 No Record Of Exposure To Herbicides Sort of sad for 6 years, 9 months, and 6 days. My thoughts. I don't know where I got the impression but I thought I would receive copies of everything. I did receive copies of available (?) personnel records, actually 4 Army forms. I did not realize until reading the first paragraph in the cover letter that they sent the original and only copy of the medical file to the VARO! Why not sent a copy to the VARO? That way they could have something to copy from and send me a copy also ! I guess the fire of 1973 has slipped their minds! I've had in a request to VARO under the Privacy Act for well over a month for a copy of my C file, which is I guess my only hope of seeing my medical records. Which by the way brings up another matter. On February 18 I sent among other things, copies of 16 letters written home in 1968-1969 to the St Petersburg RO in support of my claim. Expected delivery date was February 22nd. I send certified but not return receipt requested. I check for delivery online. When nothing showed up by the 28th I queeried the post office where I mailed from, they say call the post office in Bay Pines. Instead, I send a message to National USPS. After four days of the 2-3 days they say expect a response I call the 800# and light a fire under them. This evening about 1800 hours I get an email which in essence said the envelope is lost and sort of tough luck. No more certified for me. Good thing I sent copies and not the originals! Sending everything registered mail only to VARO from now on. Back to the 201 file business. On eBenefits it shows "Requested service personnel records that document awards, medals, decorations, military occupational specialties, campaigns, and assignments. Opened 12/20/2010 Date received 1/19/2011. I originally thought they had sent for DD214s that I had submitted with the claim but not all that info is not on DD214. It is however on DA Form 20, the enlisted qualification record. So they had the DD214s on 7/6/2010 and they got the DA Form 20 by mail from NPRC sent out on 7/19/2010. So what were they doing requesting the same info on 12/20/2010 and waiting another month to get it!! I also like the part where in talking about medical records it states," If you have your service treatment records already in your possession, please submit them. Original records are preferable to copies." I can't argue with the logic there but you won't find me turning over originals that are irreplacable to the VA or anyone else. I mean there is a fire hydrant just across the street and a fire station within 200 yards but you won't find me sitting on my bed lighting matches. I guess it's like Ron White says "You can't fix stupid." I am also puzzled where they request "Herbicides, Furnish Any Documents Showing Exposure To Herbicides". I have not heard back from my "iris" request yet either where I asked that question directly. Any ideas?? I mean are they talking about assignment to Vietnam, a line unit on Korean DMZ, or something obscure like a letter signed by General Westmoreland stating he personally saw you get sprayed with AO?? I just don't get it. Perhaps someone can educate me.

I am in the process of constructing a page per page record of documents I have supplied to VARO in St Petersburg for my claim which has been in since July 7, 2010. Too long for me, reading other persons posts I'm a newbie way in the back of the line. Thing is I'm not going to take it. Today, I was reading a Military Personnel Records Jacket DA Form 201 (June 1966). Interesting reading, wonder why I never read it in the past. For those of you without access to one I will repeat word for word the information printed printed on the form. The bold face type is of my making, for emphasis. On left side: INSTRUCTIONS This side of the Military Personnel Records Jacket is for all official and unofficial correspondence concerning the individual, such as officers' orders, requests, personal documents, training and administrative doc- uments required by local commanders, affi- davites or certificates. The documents listed on the Field Personnel File Divider (DA Form 201a), will be filed above the divider. Other documents will be filed below the divider. Upon transfer from an organization,the custodian of this record will remove all documents filed above the divider and ar- range the remaining papers in chronological order with the latest dated paper on top. Documents which are removed at time of transfer will be destroyed. Upon release from active duty or separation from the service, documents filed above the divider will be destroyed, and the remain- ing documents will be disposed of in ac- ordance with AR640-10 Upon release from active duty, all PER- SONAL DOCUMENTS (e.g. wills, mar- riage and birth certificates ) will be re- turned to the individual. Field File Section On right side: INSTRUCTIONS THE FOLLOWING LISTED DOCUMENTS WILL BE MAINTAINED ON THIS SIDe (Documents contained herein may be withdrawn for the purpose of making entries thereon. They will not be withdrawn for other purposes unless specifically authorized by pertinent regulations) 1. Qualification Record To be maintained in the order named at the topmost 2. Military Leave record documents in the file 3. Loyalty Certificate for personnel of Armed Forces 4. Record of emergency data 5. Report of Medical History Reserve ad other personnel only for whom a health 6. Report of medical examination records jacket is not maintained 7. Enlistment (Induction) Record (Enlisted personnel only) 8. Other documents when required by Department of the Army Instructions (Record title of form and requiring regulation below) TITLE REGULATION Military History Side I am not a personnel specialist, although in basic when they discovered I could type they tried to make me one, but i had my school already set. I don't know what was regularly destroyed or "disposed" of but from what I have in my posssession I think it was quite a bit. Promotion, weapons merit, assignment, commendations, various miscellaneous orders I was given when I got out. What was destroyed I don't know. What was or what was not above or below the divider I don't know. Perhaps a personnel specialist can chime in here? What I do know is that the VA seems to put a good deal of faith in the 201 file. Gone at a minimum is a lot of info on other personnel on orders you received that could give you a chance at "buddy letters". Let me relate a little piece of history. From an earlier post I stated I was stationed at USA ASCOM Depot in 1968-1969. We supplied probably better than 90% of everything in Korea to both US and ROK troops, including AO came through there. Naturally with so much stuff there were shortages, pilferage, breakage to be expected. Expected, not accepted. Having had over a decade to polish their tactics the local bandits were proficient. A favorite ploy was to have someone in stock control pull the location card on an item. When the truck hit the gate if it was noticed and anything was said, the driver simply said "I brought it in". Without a record of it there was no way to prove theft. For some reason this went on for quite awhile until someone had the bright idea to start checking the trucks on the way in as well as when leaving. That slowed them down for awhile, but some other scheme would always pop up. Does anyone else see the parallel here between the stuff stolen vs location cards missing and a VBA claim vs missing military records?? On November 7, 2001 then VA Secretary Principi signed a "memorandum of agreement" with the National Archives and Records Administration to cut down the wait time. In that agreement it was to take one working day for a high-priority request and under five-day delivery for routine requests for records. What happened?? The VA waited 5 months two weeks to request my 201 from NARA, according to eBenefits. Then it took 29 days for the records to be received once requested by the VA according to eBenefits. So the "under five working day" standard has been apparently relaxed. In a "iris" inquiry I asked just that, why the delay of 5 1/2 months delay before even asking for it? The 5 day standard given on that site had come and gone also. I also asked why if there are "herbicide exposure records" as apparently there are, as they show as being requested on eBenefits, why in the world don't they use them to outreach to veterans instead of waiting to seek them when a claim is filed. Of course I will not get a direct answer at first, that's my fault. I guess I should ask easier questions. In regards to records, both paper and otherwise I would like to make a suggestion. If you are still on active service, if you have children or grandchildren in the service or about to enter the service, any friends, etc. stress to them that at any opportunity they have collect any documentation even if they think it is not relevant at the time and get it to a safe place. Photos are good. Soil and water samples are good, use sterile containers. Keep all their letters home. My mother kept all my letters home and now 43 years later they are providing me "evidence" to use in my claims. To "newbies" remember there is a great great deal of difference in what is provided for public consumption and what is really done by the VBA. To all my fellow brothers in arms and sisters, I say good luck, and don't give up!

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By damaged I mean the barrels had holes torn in the side from forks on forklifts made by Korean workers who were offloading the drums from the railcars from Inchon. One of my jobs was to investigate damage claims on materials lost, stolen, or damaged while it was in the hands of the respective contractors from the ships hold up to and including the time it was places in the warehouse, then it was considered accepted. Example: once 2700 pair of OG107 (fatigue) trousers with waist of 27 inches came up missing. The lot was in the ship on arrival,they were taken off the ship and placed on a barge for the trip to the dock at Inchon. The pants never made it. The barge owner who held a contract for that part of the delivery was backcharged against whatever he was due. In the case of the AO the company that held the contract for getting the stuff off the railcars and into the warehouse was backcharged. We (I) in such a case would go down and "guesstimate" the amount of loss by rocking the drum and estimating how much had been lost. At the time I touched the barrels they were not leaking all over my hands or anything or actively gushing out onto the ground. My friend and I dug in the same are for coins before and after these two occasions that I know of. Ay the time there was no adverse knowledge concerning AO. We did fill out a slip of paper on the loss or damage but I can't imagine they stil exist. What type of "proof" do you think would satifsy the VA? I have a "buddy statement" about the digging for coins in the area and pictures of some of the coins. I don't have any paperwork or pictures of "leaking" drums. As to the lady having a bad day. I guess. About two hours ago I found that they had " requested service personnel records that document awards, medals, decorations, military occupational specialty, and asignments" on Dec 20, 2010 on a claim filed July 6, 2010. Sounds to me like they are looking for DD214's. I sent both of mine with the claim they received on July 6, 2010. They supposedly have the records (?) now since they report receipt on January 19, 2011.