ptsd Iraq Veteran

[Guest terrysturgis]

During my visit to the dentist yesterday I noticed a picture of a soldier on the wall. It was the son of the dental assistant. I asked her what his MOS was. She did not know what that meant, then I said what was his occupation in the Army. Infantry. I asked her if he served overseas. That's when she opened up.

He served 8 months in Iraq as an Infantry soldier. Came home for a two week leave and went Awol for 30 days. We all know that's a bad decision. He served some jail time and his attorney has bargained for a Bad Conduct Discharge. In the discharge process he has been diagnosed with PTSD and ADD. He has been advised that if he accepts the BCD that after waiting 30 days he can go to the VA, get the BCD upgraded to honorable and receive care for the PTSD.

My question to the board has anyone heard of a 30 day wait and automatic upgrade to honorable? Thanks. Terry

[Philip Rogers]

hulamatt - sorry but I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. The DoD may want to make an example of him, to stem future AWOLs, but I feel he could definitely win. Remember, now that they've classified PTSD, as a psychiatric condition, it will separate it from just plain old cowardice. Thank you for your opinion! jmo

pr

no way he went AWOL from a combat zone, that is the worst kind of AWOL you can do, he is going to get the book thrown at him, hes lucky he didn't have to serve jail time or face a court martial. The only way he can see benefits if he can show that his PTSD caused him to go AWOL...thats a 50 50 chance

[john999]

When I shipped out for Vietnam from the states we stayed in barracks that were under guard because so many guys would bug out at the last moment. There were so many guys that were AWOL the army did not even go to look for them. A guy who is DX'ed with PTSD should not even be in the army. If this guy gets a real lawyer who is not sucking up to his command he should be able to beat this thing. I agree strongly with Phil on this. I know from experience the JAG will sell enlisted down the river even in the most obvious cases . If Mom wants to save her son she needs to come up with money to hire a private lawyer who knows military law. There are many around major military posts. She should take emergency leave and go see her kid before they chop his head off. Unless he ran in the face of the enemy this is just plain old AWOL.

[JRW]

" The DoD may want to make an example of him, to stem future AWOLs......."

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I fail to see how effective this type of example would be, especially, in an all volunteer Army. True, he was AWOL and, yes, you might can argue this was during a time of war (although not an officially declared one), but................................. my gut feeling is that the powers to be know that this kid would be entitled to significant veteran benefits if he were acknowledged as service injured. Knowing this and the fact that the kid made a very dumb mistake by going AWOL, what better opportunity for the powers to be, than to deny him of such future benefits by branding him as AWOL in time of military action, and boot his butt out of the military in a most undignified manner. The Army gets rid of an undesirable and the government avoids having to pay future VA benefits to this young man because he has a BCD. This is a win-win situation for the powers to be.

Like I stated earlier, I have been very hardnosed about following rules all my life, but this situation smells and it smells bad for this young man. I do think it's wrong. IMHO

[jsdwd]

The AWOL soldier undoubtedly was court-martialed; probably at what's called a "Special Court Martial" (there are different types). Going AWOL to avoid troop movement is considered serious and he probably got a sentence of what we used to call "six, six and a kick" which is slang for six months in the brig (jail), six months forfeiture of all pay and allowances, busted in grade to E-1 and given a Bad Conduct Discharge. His attorney may have been able to plead part of that down (for example, the money) but could not get rid of the BCD. The soldier does not 'accept' that; it's his sentence. Very difficult to change.

Dishonorable discharges are not the same as a BCD. Dishonorable discharges can only be given by a General Court Martial and are generally reserved for the worst crimes such as murder, desertion, etc. AWOL would be considered much less serious which is why my guess is that he had a Special Court Martial

I'm not sure how the UCMJ handles requests for appeals, but I'm sure there is an opportunity to appeal within a given period of time. The soldier could appeal that his sentence was too harsh citing new evidence (The PTSD and ADD and any other subsequent diagnoses) and claim them as mitigating circumstances. Mitigation means to lesson the impact of his offense. PTSD or ADD are not an excuse to break the law and do not (in and of themselves) constitute an argument for insanity which is a long shot in any case. The key factors here would who and how was the PTSD and ADD diagnosed. All the writer says is that it is a "...part of the discharge process.." What part? Did the judge order special testing? Was the diagnosis offered into evidence at any point? Was it part of the sentencing deliberations?

My guess is hiring a civilian lawyer with UCMJ experience might be the best route. In cases like this there are a lot of disreputable lawyers out there, so be sure to get someone that is recommended by two independent sources you trust.

If the appeal route doesn't work or the appeal period has expired, it is very difficult to change a punitive discharge. I think some kind of pardon would be needed which would probably require congressional assistance.

A good UCMJ qualified attorney could answer these questions.

no and there is no automatic upgrade at the best he can hope for is a upgrade to a General Discharge and that is at best years from now not in a month I knew one of the My Lai 2Lts it took him 25 years to get his BCD raised to a General and now eligible to get VA medical care missing movement is bad news but taking the BCD on this advice is even worse he might be better off to see if he can do his time and stay on active duty and soldier his way thru it there are no freebies especially even in war time

his lawyer did not "bargain for a BCD" the Army is giving it to him because he went AWOL to avoid combat or desertion to avoid movement one of the worst crimes in the military a BCD is what they normally do to a soldier the lawyer did not "do" anything to help him get out and is lying about a upgrade to honorable he will never get an honorable under these circumstances the best is a General lying gd lawyers

[LarryJ]

I had a brother, he was district attorney for three counties up in far eastern Oklahoma, in the hills, far, far, from what could be considered "civilization" (we talkin moonshine stills and backwoods bars and honky-tonks and folks that went to family reunions every year to get a date..............ookay?).

So, he's sittin in his district attorney office one day when in walked two "suits". They says that they are FBI and they are there to arrest this young man fer bein AWOL, say they have a FEDERAL warrant for this young fellow and would the district attorney mind if they were to round this kid up, says they know where he lives, they got an address and whatnot.

My brother, being the sane fellow that he was, and not wanting a WHOLE BUNCH of Federal Law peephole runnin' around in his "neck-of-the-woods", disruptin' the normal flow of things liquor-related and such, he says, "tell ya what, if y'all ain't et yet we'll just drive on over near where this young fellow lives and stop and get us a bite to eat then we'll just go on over to his house and tell his daddy that y'all are there to arrest his boy", the boy whose brother he was on leave to bury when he decided that losin one boy to Vietnam was enough.

So, They go to the eatin place (named the Mule Barn Inn in case I've got any Okies in the audience) and walk in and sit down (now, picture two strangers in black suits and white shirts with black ties, got the pic, yup, I thought so). So, they order up hamburgers and then they take a look around.........and one leans over to my brother and says..............real quite like....he says "Mr. District Attorney, Sir, do you realize that EVERYBODY in here has some kinda gun on their persons, somewhere?" to which my brother says "Heck, that ain't nuttin', you oughta see them pickumup trucks out there, shucks, ain't gotta rifle round here any smaller than a 30-30. Well, I'll see you too soon as you get through UP THERE IN THAT HOLLER, AFTER YOU GET LITTLE BILLY IN THEM HANDCUFFS!"

That's about when somebody unplugged the jukebox.......right as ole Merle was gonna finish singin Okie From Muskogee.......................It got REALLY quite in thar.

The FBI boys went on back to Oklahoma City, seems that they just couldn't locate Billy.....................course, he was the one that unplugged the jukebox.

Little Billy growed up to be a fine young man, went to college and retired just a couple years ago as the Sheriff of McCurtain County, Oklahoma.

[hulamatt]

hulamatt - sorry but I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. The DoD may want to make an example of him, to stem future AWOLs, but I feel he could definitely win. Remember, now that they've classified PTSD, as a psychiatric condition, it will separate it from just plain old cowardice. Thank you for your opinion! jmo

pr

Its a tuff battle he will have to go through a court martial, and face his peers, to prove that his PTSD caused him to go AWOL, Its doable, but he has to get the right attorney, jag will not cut it. Thanks for your opinoin, and being so nice about it