Tax Dollars Hard At Work

[free_spirit_etc]

Well - my tax dollars are hard at work keeping people busy.

I called the VA to report my husband's death - and they said that the payment for Feb (the month of his death) will have to be returned. I asked "isn't that payable to the spouse? THey said NO.

I was going by this:

TITLE 38--VETERANS' BENEFITS

PART IV--GENERAL ADMINISTRATIVE PROVISIONS

CHAPTER 53--SPECIAL PROVISIONS RELATING TO BENEFITS

Sec. 5310. Payment of benefits for month of death

(a) If, in accordance with the provisions of section 5110(d) of this

title, a surviving spouse is entitled to death benefits under chapter

11, 13, or 15 of this title for the month in which a veteran's death

occurs, the amount of such death benefits for that month shall be not

less than the amount of benefits the veteran would have received under

chapter 11 or 15 of this title for that month but for the death of the

veteran.

((1) If the surviving spouse of a veteran who was in receipt of

compensation or pension at the time of death is not entitled to death

benefits under chapter 11, 13, or 15 of this title for the month in

which the veteran's death occurs, that surviving spouse shall be

entitled to a benefit for that month in the amount of benefits the

veteran would have received under chapter 11 or 15 of this title for

that month but for the death of the veteran.

(2) If (notwithstanding section 5112((1) of this title) a check or

other payment is issued to, and in the name of, the deceased veteran as

a benefit payment under chapter 11 or 15 of this title for the month in

which death occurs, that check or other payment (A) shall be treated for

all purposes as being payable to the surviving spouse, and ( if that

check or other payment is negotiated or deposited, shall be considered

to be the benefit to which the surviving spouse is entitled under

paragraph (1). However, if such check or other payment is in an amount

less than the amount of the benefit under paragraph (1), the unpaid

amount shall be treated in the same manner as an accrued benefit under

section 5121 of this title.

I figured that meant I got to keep his $255 (and if I finally get his SC award -- then they will deduct the $255 they already paid.

Now they sent me a letter that said the money has to be repaid -- but that spouses may have certain benefits --and to call the number if I think I am entitled.

So I would call the SAME people that told me I wasn't entiteld to $255.

As my husband was retired - I also contact the Defense Accounting people to report his death. They did not mention that the deposit they made on Feb 1 (he died on Feb 5) would have to be repaid.

They sent me a claim form for unpaid benefits - and still didn't inform me that I would have to return what was already paid that month. In small print at the bottom of the form it says to return any uncashed checks -- like you would not cahs a check at the beginning of the month --but wait to make sure you live through the whole month before you spend it.

Now I am reading that you have to live the WHOLE month to earn the check for that month. You have to send the money back - and then they send a prorated check for the number of days you lived.

So in this case - I guess I have to send back his retirement payment for February -and they will send his daughter (his beneficiary of record) a check for FIVE days).

What gets me is that nobody told me!!! But it looks like as soon as I send them the death certificate - they will suck it out of our bank account.

I even went to the Defense Accounting site. It says as soon as you report the death --they will freeze the account to PREVENT overpayments. Well - unless you die on the last day of the month - it looks like you have already BEEN overpaid.

It just sure would be nice if THEY would TELL you that!!!! Instead of letting you think it is all straight and then running across the dirty details on other web sites.

Geez!!1

And it is not just the military.

I tried to apply for Social security for my sin (adult disabled child). They wouldn't let him apply at first because they asked if he had worked --and he said yes - so they said he was not disabled.

I informed them that he worked for 6 weeks out of 27 years - and that he was declared disbaled by SSI in 1993. So then they decided to let him apply -- but then they sent him a disability report.

I called and asked -- do we have to fill this out - You have already FOUND him disabled 13 years ago. The question is whether he can be considered a dependent on my husband's record (as a step-child, adopted child, or equitbaly adopted child -- my husband was in the process of adopting him --and the adoption will still probably go through.)

They said since this was a different program (SSD - not SSI) they would have to have all the paperwork to decide if he was disabled --though the standards are the same for both programs -- and though it was THEIR doctors that found him disbaled --and have continued to do so.

So I spent a couple of hours filling out all of their forms -- took them with me -- and the case worker said she didn't need to see the forms because he had already been declared disbaled.

ACK!!!!!

Now they are telling me I can't apply for Mother's benefits -- because you can only get those if the child is PHYSICALLY disabled and you provide physical care (though their regualtions CLEARLY state you can claim if your child is mentally disabled and you provide guidance and supervision. - You can not claim if the child is physically disbaled and you don't have to provide care --if they are over 18. But you CAN claimif they are mentally disabled)

ACK!

I can't even appeal the decisions they are making because they aren't actual denials -- they have to let me submit a claim before I can appeal!!!

ACK!

Way too much to deal with...

But it sure would help if the government workers KNEW what their own regulations were - instead of just spouting off whatever they THINK they might be.

Free

[Chuck75]

I'd take the repayment letter from the VA and the copy of the section of title 38 to your representative. Next, Send the SSS a formal claim letter concerning the child, and again, if possible, the regulatory law, etc. that allows the claim. Again, you may need to get your representative involved. Harassing a veteran's widow is frowned upon.

Besides, the money involved might need to flow through the estate.

Well - my tax dollars are hard at work keeping people busy.

I called the VA to report my husband's death - and they said that the payment for Feb (the month of his death) will have to be returned. I asked "isn't that payable to the spouse? THey said NO.

I was going by this:

TITLE 38--VETERANS' BENEFITS

PART IV--GENERAL ADMINISTRATIVE PROVISIONS

CHAPTER 53--SPECIAL PROVISIONS RELATING TO BENEFITS

Sec. 5310. Payment of benefits for month of death

(a) If, in accordance with the provisions of section 5110(d) of this

title, a surviving spouse is entitled to death benefits under chapter

11, 13, or 15 of this title for the month in which a veteran's death

occurs, the amount of such death benefits for that month shall be not

less than the amount of benefits the veteran would have received under

chapter 11 or 15 of this title for that month but for the death of the

veteran.

((1) If the surviving spouse of a veteran who was in receipt of

compensation or pension at the time of death is not entitled to death

benefits under chapter 11, 13, or 15 of this title for the month in

which the veteran's death occurs, that surviving spouse shall be

entitled to a benefit for that month in the amount of benefits the

veteran would have received under chapter 11 or 15 of this title for

that month but for the death of the veteran.

(2) If (notwithstanding section 5112((1) of this title) a check or

other payment is issued to, and in the name of, the deceased veteran as

a benefit payment under chapter 11 or 15 of this title for the month in

which death occurs, that check or other payment (A) shall be treated for

all purposes as being payable to the surviving spouse, and ( if that

check or other payment is negotiated or deposited, shall be considered

to be the benefit to which the surviving spouse is entitled under

paragraph (1). However, if such check or other payment is in an amount

less than the amount of the benefit under paragraph (1), the unpaid

amount shall be treated in the same manner as an accrued benefit under

section 5121 of this title.

I figured that meant I got to keep his $255 (and if I finally get his SC award -- then they will deduct the $255 they already paid.

Now they sent me a letter that said the money has to be repaid -- but that spouses may have certain benefits --and to call the number if I think I am entitled.

So I would call the SAME people that told me I wasn't entiteld to $255.

As my husband was retired - I also contact the Defense Accounting people to report his death. They did not mention that the deposit they made on Feb 1 (he died on Feb 5) would have to be repaid.

They sent me a claim form for unpaid benefits - and still didn't inform me that I would have to return what was already paid that month. In small print at the bottom of the form it says to return any uncashed checks -- like you would not cahs a check at the beginning of the month --but wait to make sure you live through the whole month before you spend it.

Now I am reading that you have to live the WHOLE month to earn the check for that month. You have to send the money back - and then they send a prorated check for the number of days you lived.

So in this case - I guess I have to send back his retirement payment for February -and they will send his daughter (his beneficiary of record) a check for FIVE days).

What gets me is that nobody told me!!! But it looks like as soon as I send them the death certificate - they will suck it out of our bank account.

I even went to the Defense Accounting site. It says as soon as you report the death --they will freeze the account to PREVENT overpayments. Well - unless you die on the last day of the month - it looks like you have already BEEN overpaid.

It just sure would be nice if THEY would TELL you that!!!! Instead of letting you think it is all straight and then running across the dirty details on other web sites.

Geez!!1

And it is not just the military.

I tried to apply for Social security for my sin (adult disabled child). They wouldn't let him apply at first because they asked if he had worked --and he said yes - so they said he was not disabled.

I informed them that he worked for 6 weeks out of 27 years - and that he was declared disbaled by SSI in 1993. So then they decided to let him apply -- but then they sent him a disability report.

I called and asked -- do we have to fill this out - You have already FOUND him disabled 13 years ago. The question is whether he can be considered a dependent on my husband's record (as a step-child, adopted child, or equitbaly adopted child -- my husband was in the process of adopting him --and the adoption will still probably go through.)

They said since this was a different program (SSD - not SSI) they would have to have all the paperwork to decide if he was disabled --though the standards are the same for both programs -- and though it was THEIR doctors that found him disbaled --and have continued to do so.

So I spent a couple of hours filling out all of their forms -- took them with me -- and the case worker said she didn't need to see the forms because he had already been declared disbaled.

ACK!!!!!

Now they are telling me I can't apply for Mother's benefits -- because you can only get those if the child is PHYSICALLY disabled and you provide physical care (though their regualtions CLEARLY state you can claim if your child is mentally disabled and you provide guidance and supervision. - You can not claim if the child is physically disbaled and you don't have to provide care --if they are over 18. But you CAN claimif they are mentally disabled)

ACK!

I can't even appeal the decisions they are making because they aren't actual denials -- they have to let me submit a claim before I can appeal!!!

ACK!

Way too much to deal with...

But it sure would help if the government workers KNEW what their own regulations were - instead of just spouting off whatever they THINK they might be.

Free

[Chuck75]

Many are not aware that "direct deposit" is also direct removal authorization.

(And it's not limited to the amount under contest)

Therefore direct deposit should be avoided when possible.

"they whipped Rods last VA comp out of our bank account so fast he wasnt even cold yet-

I got it back -I think- you know I am not really sure -will have to check that-"

Free Spirit- in Spring 2005 the VA published an Erratum as to the way they were going to handle the last VA comp check of the veteran:

http://72.14.209.104/custom?q=cache:cnQ6sU...381742111066612

Lots of mumbo jumbo- I havent read it yet-but it was a change to the old regs-

they whipped Rods last VA comp out of our bank account so fast he wasnt even cold yet-

I got it back -I think- you know I am not really sure -will have to check that-

But I am curious- the $255 check-was that the SSA death benefit?

I am sure than a dependent spouse is entitled to the comp for the last month the vet lived-meaning you could not keep March comp but you should be able to keep Feb comp-unlike the old regs I fell under-

SO TRUE:

"But it sure would help if the government workers KNEW what their own regulations were - instead of just spouting off whatever they THINK they might be."

You are SO right- that goes for VA , even SSA sometimes, and for chartered vet orgs too-

they dont know an answer so they make one up-

Free-spirit I will try to see if I can find more info on the last check he had.

Being a widow for me -meant finding people who couldnt give me s straight answer too-

My SSA went OK-only because my daughter was under 16 when Rod died.

They changed my check right over the phone to the newer benefit due to his death.

Now I am thinking I never did get any VA due Rod for the month of his death.

I hope this doesnt sound sexist or politically incorrect but I noticed that vet reps deal with widows sometimes in a very unusual way- they act like the regs arent really for us when , in fact, they are-

the guy at the DAV gave me bad advise right from the gitgo and told me I had no basis for my 2 claims when Rod died.

He found out when I deposed him for a suit I filed against him- how wrong he really was-

I think this guy saw women as potentially victims for his own Vietnam demons-(he was 30% PTSD)

he treated me like dirt until the deposition.

Then he changed.

Men -please do not take offense at all this- it is just that

widows for some reason appear vulnerable to people who might try to take advantage.that includes men AND women too-I always hope that widows here and God forbid the widows your deaths will create (please dont die) will not the same treatment I did until people saw I could not be intimidated or victimized.

[free_spirit_etc]

I know about the vultures too.

I was semi - "with" my husband since 2001. We "broke up" in 2004. He fell madly in love with a former g/f who drove him nuts (it MUST be love -- I feel so crazy). Anyway -- we became BEST friends because I was the only person who could understand what he was going through because she treated him like he had treated me. So I was the only one who could listen while he went on and on about it.

When he was declared inoperable in June 2004 -- Ms. Wonderful only showed up at the hospital ONE time (two days after his surgery). Then she broke up with him by email.

I had stepped in to take care of him until she took over -- and she backed off. So I promised to take care of him as long as he needed me to. (He actually wasn't supposed to live very long).

But he ended up getting better -- and we started taking care of each other -- and were best friends - and pretty inseperable since 2004...and madly in love.

Then - when he cancer returned in 2005 --he proposed. He started with "I don't want to scare you, but.." lol

We already loved and respected each other so much. And he wanted to take care of me. I thought that was so loving that when he was afraid he might not make it - he wanted to do everything he could to make sure I was okay.

He especially wanted to make sure I had a home. But I told him - you better talk to your daughter before you offer me anything. I don't want to lose you -- but if I do - I don't want anyone coming in here and accusing me of taking what was theirs.

So he talked to her. She was happy for us. all she wanted was the grandfather clock. yadayadayada.

We had a beautiful wonderful wedding -- and a beautiful wonderful life together (though WAY too short).

He changed his life insurance to me - to cover the mortgage on the house. Even before he changed it - he would tell me "My daughter knows what I want. And she doesn't want the house or the money. If something happens to me -- she would take the insurance and pay off the house and give it to you."

When he started getting sick - she warned me not to spend all the insurance money -that I would have to pay taxes etc.

Well -- AFTER he died -- and AFTER they found out he really did have insurance --OMG!!

She calls me hysterical --WHy did my dad love you and not ME? Why did my dad want to take care of you and not ME?? Why did my dad trust you and not ME???

I tried to reasssure her that he did love her. But she thought he should have left the money to HER -- because SHE would have taken care of me.

I tried to explain that men don't usually leave their 37 year old daughter money to take care of their 50 year old wife. I am not elderly.

I even paid some god awful amount for a funeral that pleased his whole family -- fuenral here, buried there... a $3600 casket (the one I picked out wasn't good enough --etc.. etc.) and the flowers that said DAD! I even let HER be presented with the FLAG!!

The day after he was buried she came to pick up her clock -- and also took his coin collection - his motor scooter - my jar of quarters - my tanks of propane -- her and her hubby and inlaws were snatching his eagle statues off OUR bookcase. I am still not even sure WHAT all they took yet.

I was flabbergasted! They have changed their story from time to time - that they took the stuff because they were afraid I would leave and they woudn't get anything -- to they took it to their house for safe keeping -- to I volutarily GAVE it to them.

But anyway -- then they started threatening to SUE me for the life insurance. They know there is not enough in his actual estate because his two biggest possessions - the truck and the house have big loans on them. (and the house is about 50 years old and needs fixed up).

She told me the insurance was hers for 36 years. Then she told me he bought it for HER when she was a teenager. She told me he promised it would always be hers. etc etc.

The policy told a different story. He had taken it out during his second marriage and the beneficiary was his wife.

Well - now her tune has changed from why did he love you more than me to "he didn't Love you at all."

That's right. She is telling me it would be okay if he had wanted to take care of me if he loved me -- but he didn't tell HER he was in love with me -- that he just married me so I could have health insurance --and they are accusing me of MAKING him change everything. And still threatening to sue me if I don't give them half of the life insurance.

And then she has the nerve to say "You never CALL me anymore!! You think losing a husband is worse than losing a father!!"

It is hard to be "supportive" of someone who tells you that your husband didn't love you --even if you know that is not true. Someone who would try to take your husband's love away from you -- for their own selfish motives -- ACK!!

I told her --that's odd -- even perfect strangers would always remark about how much we were in love. But she said "Well - I hardly ever saw you.." And then she told me all the excuses of why she couldn't come and see her terminally ill father...

But they just act like I danced in right before he died --and took it all.

And anyone who knows my husband - knows that there is not ANYONE who could make him do something he didn't want to...lol

But, yeah..I know ALL about the vultures.

The sad thing is --that I DID want to share whatever I could with his daughter. But they were so worried that they wouldn't get anything -- and they started shoving me to "settle" the week he died -- and they would not back off and even give me TIME -- Like I don't even know WHAT I am going to end up with yet -- so it is hard to promise them from the unknown --

But they have acted in such a way that I don't think my husband would want me sharing anything with them right now.

Yep. I know all about the vultures. I wish I didn't.

Free

Your last statement- YEAH!!!!!!!! All of a sudden some people thought I had literally turned into an idiot the day Rod died and tried to give me advise on EVERYTHING-sell your farm, dont sell your farm, see my financial accountant,what a shame -you just got 2 new recliners and now that Rod died you only need one- can I have it, and oh yeah-the mailman said you get insurance company mail-Rod must have had life insurance so can I borrow 500 bucks-

I'm not kidding at all- the vultures are out there-

I get the same take as you do too Free-reading this over- if you ask for this check now before the DIC is awarded -they will send it- otherwise they will wait and add it to the DIC award.DIC took me over 3 years to get- better to ask for this money now.

[free_spirit_etc]

Actually, my husband did his research on the Va for his Thesis. It was quite interesting to say the least. But one thing I remember is that women veterans did start getting benefits when men did. The first benefits were just for men.

And actually -- the GI Bill -- wasn't so much to educate the vets - as it was to delay their entrance back into the workforce -- because they had tons of guys coming back home and no jobs to offer them -- and they were afraid of the backlash from the Vets.

But I remember one of my students asking me WHO pays for all these Veternas benefits -- and I remember part of the research showing that it actually MORE than pays for itself.

The pensions - the home loans -- the education - etc... has brought back MORE in revenue and tax dollars than is spent on the benefits.

Something to think about.

Free

Free,

I am so sorry for your loss. but I agree with you on the idiot thing. That is why I just took that GAF of 40 from the VA and see if it benfits me down the road.

To me, women veterans are treated the same way. I do appreciate the respect that I receive on this site. I realize that I am not as knowledgeable of the VA regulations as most, but I am trying.

Always,

Josephine

[free_spirit_etc]

Thanks Chuck! Actually I got my husband SSD. They tried to tell us he didn't have enough work quarters in (because he went back to school after his retirement) and I had to show him how they could go BACK to the time his income dropped below substantial gainful. (when he did have anough quarters).

But I had to show them several times.

I know veterans, unemployment, public aid, etc -- they HAVE to let you apply -- then you can appeal. But I can't find such a regualtion about Social Security. It seems like they are allowed to glance over what you give them - or ask you one or two quetions when you try to apply -- and then tell you that you can't apply because you are not eligible.

I am sure it keeps their backlog down - telling people that they aren't eligble when they are. But it sure isn't right.

I WILL keep fighting... but I feel for those who don't know their rights -- and who leave themselves at the mercy of public servants who may mean well -- but could function a bit better.

Free

I'd take the repayment letter from the VA and the copy of the section of title 38 to your representative. Next, Send the SSS a formal claim letter concerning the child, and again, if possible, the regulatory law, etc. that allows the claim. Again, you may need to get your representative involved. Harassing a veteran's widow is frowned upon.

Besides, the money involved might need to flow through the estate.

[Berta]

Free- dont know if I menioned this to you or another widow here-

one of my vet org referrals is in this DIC predicament- hope you aren't-

Were you married for one year or more before he died?

If not can you prove with notarized statements from friends and family that you lived with him continuously for over a year- if you were not married within a year prior to his death? Do you live in a common law state if you were not married to him for full year prior to death?

You said he proposed in 2005- but I dont know how long you were married-

I posted the DIC definition of surviving spouse here and cant find it-

The VA might need info on his divorce too -not sure-

and even if they already have this info- marriage license, etc they sure might ask again for the same stuff.