Ask For Sex If She's Sober

[purple]

This story was sent to me by another woman veteran....disturbs me greatly that a woman, with that much "power" in the Pentagon would say something like this, and it was obviously covered up, well not anymore! I've also passed this along to Jim Strickland and asked him to make it public in his special way!!

Time to send Ms Whitely some correspondence, don't you think?..........

25% increase in sex assault in combat zones: 'Wait until she's sober,' says Pentagon watchdog

BY Richard Sisk

DAILY NEWS WASHINGTON BUREAU

Updated Wednesday, March 25th 2009, 12:44 PM

The Pentagon is launching a sex assault prevention camapign which advises soldies to "ask her when she's sober."

WASHINGTON - It didn't get the attention of President Obama's recent Special Olympics. gaffe, but a "wait until she's sober" crack by the military's top sex crimes watchdog was more offensive, one New York lawmaker says.

"This woman is not in the right line of work," Rep. Louise Slaughter (D-Rochester) said of the statement last week by Dr. Kaye Whitley, director of the Pentagon's Sexual Assault Prevention and Response Office.

Whitley's bizarre quote came as she released the military's annual report on sex assault, which showed a 25% increase in combat zones, including 22 cases in Afghanistan and 143 in Iraq.

In pitching "bystander intervention" to curb attacks and harassment, Whitley gave this example: "If you see one of your buddies serve drinks to somebody to get them drunk, maybe what you do is step in and say 'Why don't you wait until she's sober?'"

Slaughter was aghast. "I was really shocked anyone would say a thing like that," she said.

In effect, Whitley was telling the troops to "go after her when she's sober - that says she's fair game," added Slaughter, who sponsored the legislation that required the military to report annually on sex assaults and its efforts to curb them.

In a written response to The News, Whitley said Slaughter did not "hear the statement in the context of the overall prevention strategy of the Department."

The statement came from a poster in a military marketing campaign called "Our Strength is for Defending" that is aimed at prevention, Whitley said.

The poster reads: "My Strength is for Defending, so when I saw that she was drunk, I told him, 'Ask her when she's sober.' Preventing sexual assault is part of my duty."

Whitley's annual report showed that the number of sex assaults in the 1.4 million-member active-duty military increased 8% to 2,908 in the year ending in September 2008.

Whitley noted that only about 20% of the attacks are reported because of "the fear and stigma associated with the crime."

Just 38% of the cases that were reported eventually were referred to a court martial, she said.

"This is one of the problems," said Rachel Natelson, a lawyer at the Veterans and Servicemembers Project of the Urban Justice Center in Manhattan. "It's a lack of consequences. People think they can act with impunity."

[Tbird]

good point gdsnide, not all men are rapists, most men that i have met and wow i have met a lot of men, find it abhorrent and have sisters or daughters or nieces or some close friend that they relate to.

though once you are attacked your vision is colored in a certain way and trust leaves, cautious becomes a life style.

i don't know what to say about this "wait until she's sober" what happened to no means no, wait until she's sober seems to be more about a date rape situation and to me it kind of implies that it may all be a unfortunate misunderstanding, i don't know it's kind of odd to me. though i have drilled it into my nephews that no means no and it doesn't matter at what point she says no, once it's said you back away. i have to read more about this.

Pete 53 made a statement why don't more people (I suppose I refer to men as I am one) do more courting instead of walking up to a woman & asking for sex or raping them.......Rape is not a sexual experience for the raptist but instead a power trip

Getting to know a woman & a few dates is not that difficult....But, for someone to rape another is despicable....Said person in my opinion is a bit sick or has a hatred for women so he must dominate then.....But, if a man & woman are sitting together at a bar drinking who's to say they don't already have some sort of relationship & to expect someone to go over to the man & say "Wait till she's sober" might be an invitation to a punch in the mouth

On the other hand if U notice said woman is not having a pleasant time & is attempting to leave & being restrained I feel this would be the proper time to do this...Remember not all men are Raptists & not all rapists are in the Military.

I hope that everyone knows this is just my opinion & anyone can do what they want in defense of the fair sex

Not interested in starting a flame war but just wanted to stick up for the male side of the story a bit....Thank U.....GARY

[peacecindia]

I'm from the Honky-Tonk capitol of Texas and have been boot scootin'

in everything from a dive, hole-in-the-wall to the big warehouse dancing joints.

All served alcohol and played loud music and had dancing. Now and then

I'd see a an intoxicated female limp in someone's arms and slurring, slobbering

and demanding to be let loose coz she's not drunk. Now and then I was her!

How do you identify an intoxicated female?

She's the woman slurring words, slobbering, spilling drinks, laughing out loud, falling over/tripping when dancing, vomiting, crying, screaming, arguing or fighting. She's drunk and cannot consciously consent to sex.

It would be impossible to 'court' or have a meaningful conversation with her.

An intoxicated female may say 'yes'. Don't rely on it.

An intoxicated female may act provocatively and suggest obscenities, but she cannot consent.

Don't be fooled by alcohol talking.

The courts determine BAC, blood alcohol content when deciding if she was capable of consenting.

BAC depends on body weight, amount of alcohol ingested and time passing.

A BAC can be used as part of the evidence in a rape case. You might think it's a 'Wham-Bam-Thank-You-Maam'

situation, but you have left DNA behind.

If a male is attracted to an incapacitated female and has sex with her, he risks being charged with rape.

One way I see that a male can determine if he's risking the stigma of being branded a rapist

is to carry a BREATHALYZER around with him.

Equally, females could check their BAC to know when

they are getting close to slurring words, slobbering, spilling drinks, laughing out loud, falling over/tripping when dancing, vomiting, crying, screaming, arguing or fighting.

Pete 53 made a statement why don't more people (I suppose I refer to men as I am one) do more courting instead of walking up to a woman & asking for sex or raping them.......Rape is not a sexual experience for the raptist but instead a power trip

Getting to know a woman & a few dates is not that difficult....But, for someone to rape another is despicable....Said person in my opinion is a bit sick or has a hatred for women so he must dominate then.....But, if a man & woman are sitting together at a bar drinking who's to say they don't already have some sort of relationship & to expect someone to go over to the man & say "Wait till she's sober" might be an invitation to a punch in the mouth

On the other hand if U notice said woman is not having a pleasant time & is attempting to leave & being restrained I feel this would be the proper time to do this...Remember not all men are Raptists & not all rapists are in the Military.

I hope that everyone knows this is just my opinion & anyone can do what they want in defense of the fair sex

Not interested in starting a flame war but just wanted to stick up for the male side of the story a bit....Thank U.....GARY

[peacecindia]

I'm from the Honky-Tonk capitol of Texas and have been boot scootin'

in everything from a dive, hole-in-the-wall to the big warehouse dancing joints.

All served alcohol and played loud music and had dancing. Now and then

I'd see a an intoxicated female limp in someone's arms and slurring, slobbering

and demanding to be let loose coz she's not drunk. Now and then I was her!

How do you identify an intoxicated female?

She's the woman slurring words, slobbering, spilling drinks, laughing out loud, falling over/tripping when dancing, vomiting, crying, screaming, arguing or fighting. She's drunk and cannot consciously consent to sex.

It would be impossible to 'court' or have a meaningful conversation with her.

An intoxicated female may say 'yes'. Don't rely on it.

An intoxicated female may act provocatively and suggest obscenities, but she cannot consent.

Don't be fooled by alcohol talking.

The courts determine BAC, blood alcohol content when deciding if she was capable of consenting.

BAC depends on body weight, amount of alcohol ingested and time passing.

A BAC can be used as part of the evidence in a rape case. You might think it's a 'Wham-Bam-Thank-You-Maam'

situation, but you have left DNA behind.

If a male is attracted to an incapacitated female and has sex with her, he risks being charged with rape.

One way I see that a male can determine if he's risking the stigma of being branded a rapist

is to carry a BREATHALYZER around with him.

Equally, females could check their BAC to know when

they are getting close to slurring words, slobbering, spilling drinks, laughing out loud, falling over/tripping when dancing, vomiting, crying, screaming, arguing or fighting.

PS I forgot the main point...a passed out female cannot consent to sex.

[Pete53]

Peace you hit the nail on the head. Neither can a minor consent to sex with an adult. Just simple common sense and who would want to have sex with someone who did not want to do it.

[luvHIM]

...who would want to have sex with someone who did not want to do it.

The person who has a NEED to be in CONTROL. I was not raped under the circumstances outlined in this thread. I was neither drunk nor in an environment to get drunk. I was in a basic training barracks (dorm) and it was about 1:30-2 AM. I was a trainee...he was the training instructor (TI).

I think that rape in the military involves many different scenarios. But RAPE is about CONTROL. It is not about the act of intimacy or anything related to such. Rapists don't rape for sexual pleasure/gratification...they rape because it makes them feel powerful and it enables them to exercise control over their victims. RAPE is a CRIME...it is not just some sort of social taboo. That is where this thread, imho...keeps missing the mark.

Edited April 8, 2009 by luvHIM

[purple]

luvHIM-

...yup, and that is where the VA misses the mark, as you say, in the treatment of vets who have been raped while on active duty. the VA still looks at rape as a sex crime vs a crime of control....violent control. it's not about sex. sex is used as the weapon in the crime of rape.