ptsd Need Help/advice

[jfarr22384]

Good morning ladies and gentlemen,

I served in the Marine Corps from Nov 95 to Sept 09. I was a Staff Sergeant in the communications field. I completed 3 combat tours in Iraq. I recently filed for compensation due to a number of factors to include PTSD. After completing almost 14 years of service to my country I was given a Other than Honorable discharge. The following information is a back brief of the events that led up to my discharge.

In Aug 09 I was stationed at a RS in Garden City NY. A few friends and I went out one night for some drinks and I was involved in a terrible accident. To make a long story short I hit two pedestrians with my vehicle that were intoxicated and running across a parkway. I was arrested and charged with manslaughter X2 and DWI. The marine corps started my separation paperwork immediately and I was discharged with an OTH pending civilian prosecution. I went to trial and was found not guilty on the manslaughter charges but guilty of criminally negligence homicide and DWI. It was proven at trial that my alcohol consumption did not cause the accident. I was not speeding down the road nor did I run a traffic signal, I honestly didn't see the young men running across a 6 lane highway until it was to late.

As stated before I have completed 3 combat tours and after the tours were completed and prior to my last assignment to the RS in NY I had 2 suicide attempts and I was even put in the hospital for a period of a few weeks after the second attempt. I knew something was wrong with me but I just couldn't figure it out, so I drowned the pain with alcohol. At the time of my suicide attempts PTSD was just making its way around the services.

Last November I filed for disability compensation and the VA stated the Marine Corps filed my service as other than honorable so I will not get help.

I just need advice on what if anything can I do. I have accepted responsibility for ever action during my life. I'm the one that decided to drive that evening of the accident. I just find it hard that once I graduated HS I joined the Marine Corps. During that time I served my country with honor and because I was involved in a terrible accident everything I've done has been erased.

I honestly need help,

[JT24usn]

Harleyman,

If they veteran hadn't fully separated from first tour then he can be held out for both. Veteran rendered honorable service and reupped three mos earlier than four year obligation and and then goes AWOL or gets wrote up during three mos before full four year first obligation and continues into second term and gets an ith in second period then it is willful and persistent.

In this veterans case if he got the dwi and then had multiple referrals to DAPA in service due to prior mishaps driving on base while intoxicated showing to formation intoxicated was AWOL or something else this would prove willful and persistent. ( these are just examples not what the above veteran had other than what he stated)

[jfarr22384]

Thanks for reading and for the replies.

T8r.. I had no pervious DUI or any other alcohol related incidents in my 14 year career with the Marine Corps.

Berta.... Yes I was given a Character of Service Discharge and Yes the CAR is on my DD214. I just don't understand why they would deny the initial claim. When I submitted the claim I sent in my previous Honorable Discharge Certs that showed I was a good Marine. As stated previous I was hospitalized back in 05 after my 2nd deployment. I was in a very dark place and the 2nd time I tried to commit suicide they put me in the hospital for about 2 weeks. I was medicated and after discharge I had to see a doctor once a month. After that I was redeployed to Iraq for the 3rd time. I honestly don't remember if PTSD was even mentioned in my medical record. PTSD was still on the horizon and I don't think the services were concerned with it at that time.

[JT24usn]

9. Conditional Discharges and Uncharacterized Discharges, Continued

d. Identifying the need for a Conditional Discharge COD Determination

Once development is complete and evidence is received, use the table below to identify the need for a conditional discharge COD determination.

If..

Then

development discloses a prior and separate period of honorable service which would qualify the claimant for the benefit requested

Note: A complete and separate period of service is defined as a break in service greater than one day.

Example: The individual was discharged on September 3, 1975. His next period of service began on September 5, 1975.

adjudicate the claim on that basis, if the claimed conditions fall under the good period of service, or

complete a COD determination if the claimed conditions fall under the questionable period of service.

Note: If it is unclear which period of service the claimed conditions fall under, complete a COD determination.

development does not disclose a prior and separate period of honorable service which would qualify the claimant for the benefit requested

proceed with a COD determination,

consider whether the former service member had faithful and meritorious service through the period of active duty for which he/she was obligated at the time of induction or enlistment, and

discuss the issue of conditional discharge in the decision.

Change Date

February 27, 2012

PRIVATE INFOTYPE="PRINCIPLE"

a. Provisions of 38 U.S.C. 101(18), for Reenlistment Prior to Discharge

38 U.S.C. 101(18) provides that an individual who enlisted or reenlisted before completion of a period of active service can establish eligibility to VA benefits if he/she satisfactorily completed the period of active service for which he/she was obligated at the time of entry. The satisfactory completion of one contracted period of enlistment while serving on a subsequent contracted period of service under a new enlistment is considered a conditional discharge.

The provisions of 38 U.S.C. 101(18) apply even if

the subsequent discharge was under dishonorable or other than honorable conditions, or

a statutory bar exists for entitlement to benefits for the later period of service.

Note: VA has the authority to determine the character of discharge for any type of discharge that is not binding on it; therefore, VA has the authority to determine the character of discharge for all periods of service identified in a conditional discharge.

Continued on next page

9. Conditional Discharges and Uncharacterized Discharges, Continued

PRIVATE INFOTYPE="PROCEDURE"

b. When to develop for a Possible Conditional Discharge

A DD Form 214 may show that an individual served one continuous period of service. However, enlistment contracts generally range from three to six years. Therefore development for a conditional discharge must be undertaken, if

the service was over three years, especially if the discharge dates do not line up to an exact number of years or months, or

if there is any question about how many periods of service the Veteran enlisted for, or

the DD Form 214 shows that prior active service exists

Example: Claimant served from February 5, 1969 to May 26, 1972. Though this service was only for 3 years and appx. 4 months, the actual periods of enlistment were as follows:

- First enlisted on February 5, 1969 for 3 years,

- Discharged November 14, 1970 for immediate reenlistment for 3 years, and

- Discharged on July 26, 1971 for immediate reenlistment for 3 years

PRIVATE INFOTYPE="PRINCIPLE"

c. How to Develop for a Possible Conditional Discharge

To develop for a possible conditional discharge

request facts and circumstances as with all COD determinations, and

request complete eligibility for separation information from the applicable service department using PIES or DPRIS, as appropriate. This request will provide information regarding

- whether the Veteran was eligible for complete separation prior to the date of dishonorable or OTH discharge, and

- the date(s) on which this claimant completed the period(s) of active service for which he or she was obligated at the time(s) of induction or reenlistment.

[Berta]

Something seems drastically wrong here.

I strongly suggest (if you are still in the appellate period for the RO decision,) to appeal that decision.

BTW When did the VA send it to you?

It would help if you could scan and attach it here (Cover the personal identifying stuff) so we can understand the VA's reasoning for their decision.

It is the Reasons and Bases part and the Evidence list that will help us understand the denial.

I also suggest trying to get a vet rep to help with that.

Here are some lawyers who specialize in discharge upgrades:

http://militaryadvocacy.com/areas-of-practice/discharge-upgrades.html

http://www.militaryjusticeinternational.com/Military-Cases/Discharge-Upgrade.aspx

http://www.usmilitaryattorney.com/Discharge_Upgrade_Requests.aspx

http://www.securityclearanceadvocates.com/Military-Law/Discharge-Upgrade-Requests.aspx

They all have a Contact area to assess your case and there are plenty more if you google

upgrade discharge lawyers

Bad paper follows a veteran the rest of their life and impacts on not only any SC potential, but on their employment and numerous other areas of their life.

Tbr gave some very good info and I echo harleyman's question to Meg..and would love to see that decision she mentioned ,as well....

I feel we at hadit will be seeing more and more OTHs and other forms of bad paper here as the war peals down and an article I posted here recently supports what I have seen happening since the Korean War Era....

Sick soldiers don't deserve bad paper ,they deserve the care VA's motto insured them, when they signed up.

[harleyman]

T8r , you said: development discloses a prior and separate period of honorable service which would qualify the claimant for the benefit requested

Note: A complete and separate period of service is defined as a break in service greater than one day.

Isn't that what I said?

If the Veteran claims conditions or injuries or illness and there is a record of it during the honorable period the Veteran would be entitled to service connection for that period.

On the other hand if the veteran is claiming something during the Other than honorable period and whatever the veteran did was a "bar" to benefits he/she would not be eligible for compensation benefits for the OTH period of service. NOT all periods of service.

I would love to be able to see the actual decision on the claim you are referencing, as I think something is wrong with the deicision, if it says what you are telling us. If the Veteran had 3 distinct periods of service and three different discharges then something is wrong. (this was written in response to Megh post saying the Veteran she helped had his good periods of service "trumped" by this OTH. Which is not possible if you have distinct periods of honorable or general discharge under honorable conditions with separate DD Form 214).

However, if the Veteran had concurrent periods of service and no separate discharges then what you are saying can happen and it is something a Veteran should fight to have his discharge upgraded. In my opinion it is diffinately not fair to a Veteran especially if he has combat and emmient danger area service prior to the OTH discharge.

[JT24usn]

T8r , you said: development discloses a prior and separate period of honorable service which would qualify the claimant for the benefit requested

Note: A complete and separate period of service is defined as a break in service greater than one day.

Isn't that what I said?

If the Veteran claims conditions or injuries or illness and there is a record of it during the honorable period the Veteran would be entitled to service connection for that period.

On the other hand if the veteran is claiming something during the Other than honorable period and whatever the veteran did was a "bar" to benefits he/she would not be eligible for compensation benefits for the OTH period of service. NOT all periods of service.

I would love to be able to see the actual decision on the claim you are referencing, as I think something is wrong with the deicision, if it says what you are telling us. If the Veteran had 3 distinct periods of service and three different discharges then something is wrong. (this was written in response to Megh post saying the Veteran she helped had his good periods of service "trumped" by this OTH. Which is not possible if you have distinct periods of honorable or general discharge under honorable conditions with separate DD Form 214).

However, if the Veteran had concurrent periods of service and no separate discharges then what you are saying can happen and it is something a Veteran should fight to have his discharge upgraded. In my opinion it is diffinately not fair to a Veteran especially if he has combat and emmient danger area service prior to the OTH discharge.

The honorable and second period can overlap I'd he trips prior to 4 year obligation. Meaning if he reupped three months prior and did something wrong in those three month and it continues in into the second then both periods are a bar. That was why I posted explanation of a conditional discharge. I do a couple of these a month. Especially since we are getting la and ws brokered in to us.

I'm probably not explaining myself as well. That was why I posted the regs and manual references to help. Sorry sounds better in head than typing on iPhone.

Edited August 10, 2013 by T8r