ptsd Fdc Filed In April. Will Filing Docs To Support Ptsd Kick It Out?

[Marineswife]

Hello,

What an awesome site you have here! I have been trying to get my husband to file for benefits for years and finally talked him into seeing a psychiatrist and then filing an FDC in April. I am just beginning to learn the ropes of this whole deal and now I am concerned that we might not have included "enough" documentation on his FDC (filed with our county VA rep, not a VSO- which I personally think was a mistake now...).

My husband has been seeing the VA for about 8 years for his medical problems but the rep advised us to go ahead and file on his PTSD and hearing loss/Tinnitus since I had all of that documentation (including a Nexus letter from his Psychiatrist) readily available to me. It takes quite a bit to get my husband anywhere near any kind of "official place of business" due to his general distrust of all things "official" but, since I finally got him there, I thought we might as well make hay while the sun shines, and file.

We included the Application, all of our birth certs, marriage licenses, his DD214, the Nexus letter but, we did not include any 21-0781 form(s) as the rep stated that because he had received combat pay in Vietnam and a Cross of Gallantry and the Psychiatrist had stated a direct correlation between some "stressors" and his PTSD, that we didn't need to send any letters of support or additional documentation. All of his health records are from the VA so, those were not included either.

Now I am wondering if we did the right thing? He has many other things going on but, we felt like this would at least get the ball rolling for him. My question is - If I send additional documentation that is directly related to the two conditions he filed, will that kick him out of the FDC process?

[Berta]

As USN_HM_VSR states"
"The only benefit for FDC is if you get SC on your original claim you will receive an additional 12 months of retro pay."

The Key word is "if".

The extra retro is basically an illusion ,unless a vet gets a favorable C & P result and/or has sent to VA a strong IMO, that follows the IM0 criteria here at hadit.
(Non- VA diagnosis and IMOs for PTSD claims will no longer be accepted by the VA, under the 2010 PTSD regulations.)



I strongly feel the 0780 should be filed.

I wouldn't want to see anyone go through what Diver here did


As I recall Diver was a Medic in Vietnam.(probably Navy Corpsman) so obviously experienced stressors and I sure assume, was in close priximity to enemy fire. They still wanted a 0781 form from him.


The "amendment" the lawyer's site referred to is the new 2010 PTSD regulation criteria here in this forum.



It took this veteran below ( Vietnam) from 1998 and then again in 2004, to finally succeed on his PTSD claim because, although VA could not verify his stressor

"The Board's January 2012 remand included the instruction that the Veteran should be afforded a VA examination to determine whether it was at least as likely as not that he had PTSD related to service. The examiner was instructed to not consider various stressors (to include that the Veteran worked with body bags and dead bodies). Rather, the examiner was directed to only "consider in-service stressors which were consistent with the Veteran's 29-day service at Tan Son Nhut in August 1967 when he was assigned to communication work such as working with teletype and switchboard operation."

An April 2012 Memorandum concerning a Formal Finding regarding stressor corroboration referenced an April 2012 response from the Joint Service Records Research Center (JSRRC) that it was unable to document any attacks on the Tan Son Nhut Air Force Base during August or September 1967."

As this statement indicates, the BVA was trying to determine if the veteran fit into the new 2010 PTSD criteria,instead of the pre -2010 criteria..

Luckily one piece of evidence the veteran ( or maybe his lawyer) offered was this:

"Also, a "Combat Operations After Action Report" dated May 12, 1967, references 82-mm mortar, 75-mm recoilless rifle, and 122-mm rocket attacks against "Bien Hoa Air Force Base, Republic of Vietnam, and the surrounding area."

"ORDER

Service connection for PTSD is granted."

http://www.va.gov/vetapp15/Files2/1514081.txt


Maybe VA would conceded his stressor based on your husband's MOS and other consistent factors at time of the stressor.

That still means, however, that they have to be aware of a stressor.

And that concession would be ,in my opinion based on my experience, a BIG "Maybe".

[Marineswife]

As USN_HM_VSR states"

"The only benefit for FDC is if you get SC on your original claim you will receive an additional 12 months of retro pay."

The Key word is "if".

The extra retro is basically an illusion ,unless a vet gets a favorable C & P result and/or has sent to VA a strong IMO, that follows the IM0 criteria here at hadit.

(Non- VA diagnosis and IMOs for PTSD claims will no longer be accepted by the VA, under the 2010 PTSD regulations.)

I strongly feel the 0780 should be filed.

I wouldn't want to see anyone go through what Diver here did

As I recall Diver was a Medic in Vietnam.(probably Navy Corpsman) so obviously experienced stressors and I sure assume, was in close priximity to enemy fire. They still wanted a 0781 form from him.

The "amendment" the lawyer's site referred to is the new 2010 PTSD regulation criteria here in this forum.

It took this veteran below ( Vietnam) from 1998 and then again in 2004, to finally succeed on his PTSD claim because, although VA could not verify his stressor

"The Board's January 2012 remand included the instruction that the Veteran should be afforded a VA examination to determine whether it was at least as likely as not that he had PTSD related to service. The examiner was instructed to not consider various stressors (to include that the Veteran worked with body bags and dead bodies). Rather, the examiner was directed to only "consider in-service stressors which were consistent with the Veteran's 29-day service at Tan Son Nhut in August 1967 when he was assigned to communication work such as working with teletype and switchboard operation."

An April 2012 Memorandum concerning a Formal Finding regarding stressor corroboration referenced an April 2012 response from the Joint Service Records Research Center (JSRRC) that it was unable to document any attacks on the Tan Son Nhut Air Force Base during August or September 1967."

As this statement indicates, the BVA was trying to determine if the veteran fit into the new 2010 PTSD criteria,instead of the pre -2010 criteria..

Luckily one piece of evidence the veteran ( or maybe his lawyer) offered was this:

"Also, a "Combat Operations After Action Report" dated May 12, 1967, references 82-mm mortar, 75-mm recoilless rifle, and 122-mm rocket attacks against "Bien Hoa Air Force Base, Republic of Vietnam, and the surrounding area."

"ORDER

Service connection for PTSD is granted."

http://www.va.gov/vetapp15/Files2/1514081.txt

Maybe VA would conceded his stressor based on your husband's MOS and other consistent factors at time of the stressor.

That still means, however, that they have to be aware of a stressor.

And that concession would be ,in my opinion based on my experience, a BIG "Maybe".

Thanks so Much Berta! Great information!

I will definitely use it. I have already begun filling out a few "stressor" 0781 forms and am in the process of trying to verify the original 2 that are mentioned on his Nexus letter.

The only non-compliance issue that I see immediately in his VA Drs Nexus letter is that he failed to state "I have reviewed the pts. Service Records and his MOS are in line with the verbal accounts by the pt." So when we see that Dr. again, I am going to ask him if he will maybe have another letter made for my hubby with his Gen Anxiety Issues and the fact that his Unit was under attack on many occasions and then reference that he reviewed his MSRS... I am also working with a lady at the Vietnam Archive Center to try to establish dates and/or any daily reports mentioning the stressors he has identified.

You mention a research center (JSRRC) in your reply but, I thought I read somewhere that the JSRRC does not keep Marine Corps records and I have been unable to log on to the recommended site for the Corps....

We have an appt with a VSO at the DAV on Thurs. and we will turn in the 0781 at that time. The 12 months additional retro (although nice) is not a driving force for us as much as just getting his foot in the door. So far, we are stuck in the "Under Review" for almost 90 days. I guess that is not too horrible compared to what I am seeing from a lot of people on here but, it sure isn't the "120 day completion" time frame as advertised. I am learning that with the VA NOTHING is "as advertised".

Thanks again for your help,

marieswife

[Berta]

yes sorry, this is a better link:

http://guides.grc.usmcu.edu/archives

Since your husband was a Marine in Vietnam, perhaps ,with any date and place and stressor,and his full MOS designation ( Like '1st

MARDIV, 1st Amphibious Tractor Battalion,' I might be able to find something to help him.

I have a complete USMC History on my PC.

Then again my history was from circa 2007 when I graduated from AMU...I am sure, since Vietnam is still a Lessons Learned part of any military school's warfare courses, the link above might sure be better than all mine are.

Actually this should be able to prove:

"helicopter crash on the Air base in DaNang where he was an MP and first Responder. I won't go into the details (I am working on researching the exact date in 1970"

As a responder and in a recovery op,as I assume this had to be, this would not only be in Morning Reports but also,if he knew the name of anyone deceased, their name would be on the Wall.

The Wall (I think the Wall on line is same as getting help with a tracing in person)

requires the veterans full name, date of death or a very good estimate and the veteran's home town.


Could this be the crash info?
http://www.vspa.com/dn-awacs-crash-1970.htm

Did he know any of the dead or injured?
.

[Marineswife]

yes sorry, this is a better link:

http://guides.grc.usmcu.edu/archives

Since your husband was a Marine in Vietnam, perhaps ,with any date and place and stressor,and his full MOS designation ( Like '1st

MARDIV, 1st Amphibious Tractor Battalion,' I might be able to find something to help him.

I have a complete USMC History on my PC.

Then again my history was from circa 2007 when I graduated from AMU...I am sure, since Vietnam is still a Lessons Learned part of any military school's warfare courses, the link above might sure be better than all mine are.

Actually this should be able to prove:

"helicopter crash on the Air base in DaNang where he was an MP and first Responder. I won't go into the details (I am working on researching the exact date in 1970"

As a responder and in a recovery op,as I assume this had to be, this would not only be in Morning Reports but also,if he knew the name of anyone deceased, their name would be on the Wall.

The Wall (I think the Wall on line is same as getting help with a tracing in person)

requires the veterans full name, date of death or a very good estimate and the veteran's home town.

Could this be the crash info?

http://www.vspa.com/dn-awacs-crash-1970.htm

Did he know any of the dead or injured?

.

Berta,

Unfortunately this was not the crash. The crash he is talking about was 2 Marine Corps Cobra Gun Ships that crashed when the second one took off too fast and crashed into the first one. Ed did not know the guys killed (2 pilots and 2 co-pilots). The time frame is about 2 weeks prior to 4/2/1970.

We have been discussing the "incoming mortars and rockets" that came into the Base in DaNang,. He states it happened on a weekly basis that they would have to run for cover in the bunkers. He was with MAG 16, MABS 16 Zulu Company. He didn't know any of the KIA personally as they were not in his unit. He has trouble now with dreaming of running for cover and/or someone chasing him to kill him.

He also states that while he was with Zulu Company they would often take fire from the VC who would set up sniperrs and rocket/mortar launchers in the Catacombs and then fire on the Units at the base (including his) at night. The next morning his unit would go out to Marble Mountain and look to capture these VC. He also said that his company went on several patrols into little towns/hamlets around the base and try to "flush out VC". During these patrols there were several "incidents" of their unit being stopped/pinned down because of taking fire and/or mines in their path that had to be detonated.

I will say this- in 30+ yrs of marriage, this is the first time my husband has ever spoken to me in detail about what he had to do in Vietnam. This is an education that I never imagined getting or wanting and it is so hard on him to remember all of these details to me. No wonder he has not wanted to file for his benefits for so long, the process is very painful! It is really a sad state of affairs that the VA makes these vets recount these episodes and then looks at the "stories" with skepticism.

Thank you so much for your help Berta,

I will definitely look at the site you have provided and I appreciate you looking at your records to try and help us.

[Marineswife]

I was just called by a Ms. Montgomery at Vietnam Center and Archive in Texas and she located the crash and the names of the men who were KIA aboard both helicopters including the tail numbers on both helicopters. She is going to email me the copy of the official report for our records and to submit for proof. There is an excellent site that she gave me in case anyone else is looking for Helicopter/Vietnam information- It is the Vietnam Helicopter Pilots Association the website is

www.vhpa.org

this site gives all kinds of information including all of the Pilots/Co-pilots and Helicopters that were lost on a daily basis in Vietnam. A sobering site to say the least. Now, I need to find information on the bombings of the DaNang Air Base and/or records of patrols my husbands unit and we will be good to go.

Thanks to all that have helped me and hopefully you can add the helicopter pilots site to the data base if you don't already have it.

marineswife

[Berta]

Yow, we must have ESP...I was just going to give you that link!

You sure are doing your very best to help the hubby and I think it is a good thing that he is getting this stuff out with you......

Those incomings etc etc at Danang...my husband 1srMarDiv Rolling Thunder/ Starlight ops ,65-66, put on his PTSD questionnaire (for the Inhouse program_) 'incoming' as usual and 'firefights as usual' for much of many months there and then listed specific stressors.within those months.

His most horrific stressors had nothing at all to do with the firefights etc. (except a few he never told them about., easily verifiable.)

I commend you Marineswife.

It was very difficult for my husband to talk about some stuff to me and could never tell the VA all of it . Heck Danang took incomng and attacks all the time! It should be easy to narrow that down more for what he experienced,where and when.

This might help:

http://militarypolicevietnam.com

And there are some Vietnam MP web sites as well...They can be searched with the unit designation to find them.