Which regulation prohibits the recording of C&P exams?

[63Charlie]

I believe that this regulation leaves the veteran at the mercy of some of the unscrupulous VA examiners.

Please cite the regulation.

[LongTooth]

I'm gonna say this. I kept my cool in my C&P exam and I had my gf in there with me. Half the stuff I told this guy never made it into the report. The other half of the stuff I told this guy was completely twisted around as to be unrecognizable. The only way I can see fighting this quack doctor is with an actual recording of the exam. I filed a claim because I'm screwed up. Not so I could blow some doctor for a favorable review of my disability.

In my opinion, and I'm pretty sure I'm correct. If federal/state law says you can record. The VA can say no until their blue in the face and it doesn't matter.

Handwritten notes, while nice and all. Do not carry the weight and truth of an actual recording.

Recording a C&P exam is really the only way to protect yourself from an unscrupulous examiner.

In the future any and all dealings I have with the VA will be recorded. That includes C&P exams.

[Buck52]

It's unfortunate these examiners do this  but some are known to do this.

Remember evidence of record is what wins  no matter what an examiner puts in his'her report  he/she can be proved wrong..(with records of evidence) in your favor.

you should always take what evidence (records) you have that will help you substain a favorable report with you to your c&p exam in case the examiner don't have it or just don't read it.

you always need to have these records with you to back up what you say to the examiner.

You will likely be denied from what you reported here in these post  but you need to wait and see? 

 You need to have your C-FILE to make sure all your evidence is in it and its possible the examiner never had the evidence he/she needed.

THE EXAMINER GOES BY WHATS IN FRONT OF HIM/HER READING OFF THE COMPUTER  YOUR MEDICAL RECORDS  OF YOUR PROPOSED DISABILITY

if some of your evidence was not in the computer for the examiner to read  and you start telling him/her verbally at your C&P  this and that and my disability is severe  ect,,ect,,, usually that means the examiner may think your malingering ...simply because there's no record of what your stating to the examiner.

IF YOUR DENIED file 21- 0958  and send in any new evidence you have that included the evidence that you had and was not used or read at your exam.

I would be careful taking any type of a recording devise to a C&P Exam  that could cause you more unwanted and needless problems.

Edited September 9, 2018 by Buck52

[Buck52]

LongTooth quoted

''I filed a claim because I'm screwed up. Not so I could blow some doctor for a favorable review of my disability.''

you need medical records (evidence) in your favor to do this , because this is what it takes. if you have the evidence and the examiner fails to read it and said things that were not true   ..this is why we have the right to disagree and you have to follow the VA rules to do this  by Notice of Disagreement (NOD) After your denied. (if you are.?..you might not be denied)

 No one here is telling you to blow some Dr off  Were trying to help you, if you think other wise then I can't help you.  sorry.

Having an Attitude at a C&P usually will end up in a denial.

[LongTooth]

29 minutes ago, Buck52 said:

LongTooth quoted

''I filed a claim because I'm screwed up. Not so I could blow some doctor for a favorable review of my disability.''

you need medical records (evidence) in your favor to do this , because this is what it takes. if you have the evidence and the examiner fails to read it and said things that were not true   ..this is why we have the right to disagree and you have to follow the VA rules to do this  by Notice of Disagreement (NOD) After your denied. (if you are.?..you might not be denied)

 No one here is telling you to blow some Dr off  Were trying to help you, if you think other wise then I can't help you.  sorry.

Having an Attitude at a C&P usually will end up in a denial.

I am aware of what's needed and I don't mean to come off as an xxxxxxx. What I'm trying to convey is the fact that if a doctor doesn't want to SC you for WHATEVER reason. Then it falls on you to protect yourself. Since we can't tell beforehand whether or not we're going to get some asshat for a Dr. then common sense tells me it's better to be safe than sorry. If the law tells me I can record. I'm going to record. They can try and make things difficult for you all they want, you have the law on your side. With the proliferation of recording devices in all shapes and sizes the likelyhood of being detected recording your exam is negligible anyways. In the event the device is discovered by the doctor during the course of the exam he can do nothing about it anyways. If it makes the doctor uncomfortable enough to stop the exam then that's on them and you should have recourse. I will say this also. When it's the word of a 30 year psychologist against the word of a psycho nutjob, absent a recording of the disputed conversation, who would you believe?

[broncovet]

Its probably covered here:

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/38/1.218

It pretty much says the VA has control of you while you visit the premesis.  Remember, Chevron deference allows enforcement of "agency interpretations" of the law.  

However, it sounds like you are going to where you dont want to be going.  I think it was president Roosevelt who said "If you double up your fist at me, I will double up mine".    In short, if you want a favorable c and p exam, the correct method is to be nice and non threatening, as recording the exam is very threatening and intimidating.  Try being nice instead, first, at least.  

[LongTooth]

44 minutes ago, broncovet said:

Its probably covered here:

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/38/1.218

It pretty much says the VA has control of you while you visit the premesis.  Remember, Chevron deference allows enforcement of "agency interpretations" of the law.  

However, it sounds like you are going to where you dont want to be going.  I think it was president Roosevelt who said "If you double up your fist at me, I will double up mine".    In short, if you want a favorable c and p exam, the correct method is to be nice and non threatening, as recording the exam is very threatening and intimidating.  Try being nice instead, first, at least.  

I gave that a read through and maybe about the only thing that comes close that I could find would be under:

 

(4)Conformity with signs and emergency conditions. The head of the facility, or designee, shall have authority to post signs of a prohibitory and directory nature. Persons, in and on property, shall comply with such signs of a prohibitory or directory nature, and during emergencies, with the direction of police authorities and other authorized officials. Tampering with, destruction, marring, or removal of such posted signs is prohibited.

 

what I take that to mean is that the facility administrator can have signs posted that say "No firearms allowed" or "No cell phones allowed" in as many obvious places as they feel necessary. The problem with this is at the bottom of 38 CFR 1.218 which states:

 

(3) Nothing contained in the rules and regulations set forth in paragraph (a) of this section shall be construed to abrogate any other Federal laws or regulations, including assimilated offenses under 18 U.S.C. 13, or any State or local laws and regulations applicable to the area in which the property is situated.

 

What this tells me is that, absent a valid Chevron deference argument, A posted sign that tells me I can't do something I have a lawful right to do, in accordance with the regulations set forth by a different statute,  is invalid.

 

From my quick read through of the Chevron Deference Doctrine (CDD from now on)

as Justice Stevens wrote in Chevron, when the statute is silent or ambiguous with respect to the specific issue, the question for the court is whether the agency’s action was based on a permissible construction of the statute.

"https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/chevron_deference"

The problem I find with the CDD argument in this case is that the statute in question is neither silent nor ambiguous.

 

2(d)

It shall not be unlawful under this chapter for a person not acting under color of law to intercept a wire, oral, or electronic communication where such person is a party to the communication or where one of the parties to the communication has given prior consent to such interception unless such communication is intercepted for the purpose of committing any criminal or tortious act in violation of the Constitution or laws of the United States or of any State.

 

"https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2511"

 

It appears to me, at least, that under federal law I as a citizen have the right to record any conversation that I am a party to.

 

Should you record should you not record...Well if I found out you where recording me I'd probably be upset I'd probably also let you record if we where conducting business in a professional capacity. It helps keep things above board in my opinion. Your entire claim is documented to some degree from start to finish. With official forms and audio recordings of hearings when needed. If an audio record is needed to keep the issues and facts straight and correct in a hearing about your case. Why is it not valid to accept audio recording as a legitimate tool in the conduct of a C&P exam? The problem with the current system is that if you get a "less than honest" examiner the only thing you have out of the process is an official document that is created and controlled by the "less than honest" examiner. Yes you can appeal and file NOD's the point I'm trying to make is you shouldn't really have to or if you do have to you should be able to walk in with a recording proving your version of events to a DRO or Judge.

 

I'm in the middle of a claim, which is to say, I'm in the middle of a fight. A battle. A war. I'm not here to care one way or the other if the person examining me is offended because I don't trust them enough to not record them. Why  would I trust somebody I just met and will never see again? That makes no sense to me. If it takes a recording to catch a doctor doctoring my report then why wouldn't I do that? Otherwise the only thing I have to show now is a botched C&P and the need to spend 1200 bucks that I don't have refuting an obvious hack job and now potentially years more cooling my heels. A recording might have prevented all that. The choice for me, going forward, is perfectly clear.

 

Again, I'm not here to be confrontational. I'm just trying to put out good information backed up by statute and personal experience.