ptsd Col. Dan Update On Vet Suicide

[Berta]

(From email from Col. Dan Cedusky angelfire)

Note: If you have never reviewed your medical records from the VA, you

don't know what you are missing, especially in mental health clinics....

What you say to a doctor, and what he writes down in his notes.... Is like

fiction.... One thing for sure if you smoke, the one comment that will

consistently appear is one of things you were there for was smoke

cessation.... Even tho you may have never asked for it or mentioned it. I

highly recommend that every veteran go to the medical records section at the

VAMC and ask for a copy of your/their records & Dr Notes.

***********

Last update: February 04, 2007 - 9:24 PM

VA medical records don't mention that veteran felt suicidal

Jonathan J. Schulze's father and stepmother say they heard him tell St.

Cloud hospital staff that he was thinking of killing himself.

By Kevin Giles, Star Tribune

Records from the Veterans Medical Center in St. Cloud indicate that Marine

veteran Jonathan J. Schulze didn't tell staff members that he was suicidal

-- as his family has alleged -- when he asked to be admitted to the

hospital's psychiatric unit.

His father and stepmother, Jim and Marianne Schulze, maintain that the

records are not accurate.

They say they heard him tell hospital staff members on two occasions that he

was thinking of killing himself, just days before he committed suicide in

his New Prague home on Jan. 16.

"The most disturbing part for me is their denial of Jon's suicidal

condition," said Jim Schulze, who has read nearly 400 pages of records, most

relating to his son's psychological counseling at the Minneapolis Veterans

Medical Center after he returned from a seven-month tour of duty in Iraq

during 2004.

But the Schulzes also say that the records show a troubled, emotionally

distraught combat veteran who still seemed to be fighting the war in Iraq

even after he left the Marines.

Veterans Administration officials in Minnesota can't comment on the records

or their dealings with Jonathan Schulze, said Joan Vincent, the VA's public

affairs officer in St. Cloud.

"We need to maintain the privacy of this veteran," she said Friday.

Schulze's suicide has drawn the attention of national veterans groups and

members of Congress, who question whether the VA is prepared to handle the

mental health needs of the growing number of Iraq war veterans. U.S. Sen.

Daniel Akaka, D-Hawaii, chairman of the Senate Veterans Affairs Committee,

said Schulze's case "may indicate systemic problems in VA's capacity to

identify, monitor, and treat veterans who are suicidal."

The case is being investigated by a medical inspector and a clinical

psychologist from the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs. They were

expected to conclude their visits to the St. Cloud and Minneapolis veterans

hospitals this past Friday, said Matt Burns, a spokesman in Washington.

Burns said no such "comprehensive on-site investigation" had been done in

Minnesota for at least five years. About 10 investigations are done

elsewhere each year, he said.

4 pages on two conversations

Jim Schulze, of rural Stewart, Minn., obtained his son's records through the

Minneapolis VA office and shared some of them with the Star Tribune. Four

pages of the records pertain to two conversations with staff at the St.

Cloud veterans hospital in which Schulze's father and his stepmother say he

told staff members that he was suicidal.

The first document, from Jan. 11, notes only that Schulze came to St. Cloud

to ask for screening for chemical dependency treatment and was referred to a

clinical social worker.

Jim and Marianne Schulze said that record fails to mention that Jonathan

told a staff member that he was thinking of killing himself -- which

Marianne said she witnessed -- and asked to be admitted to the mental health

unit. They said he came to the hospital with his clothes packed but was

turned away.

A document from Jan. 12, when Schulze spoke with a counselor over the phone

from his father's farmhouse, indicated that he was asked about suicide.

Under the category, "Having/had suicidal ideation/attempts," the counselor

wrote: "no/no."

Ideation is a clinical term referring to thoughts or inclinations.

Marianne Schulze said that she heard Jonathan's side of the conversation as

he sat on the living room couch and that he clearly told the counselor he

felt suicidal. He told her, after hanging up the phone, that he was No. 26

on a waiting list for a bed.

However, officials at both Minnesota hospitals said that their acute

psychiatric care units do not have waiting lists. They also said that under

VA policy, local police would be contacted to check on any veteran who talks

about suicide over the phone.

A separate mental-health unit with beds at the St. Cloud veterans hospital

had a waiting list of 21 veterans on Jan. 29, the VA's Vincent said. That

unit, known as residential treatment, is more for ongoing cases involving

mental health and substance abuse, not for acute psychiatric care, she said.

Seeing a plea for help

The records from St. Cloud show that in one instance, Schulze told the

counselor questioning him over the phone that he was diagnosed with

post-traumatic stress disorder at Camp Pendleton, Calif., when he was still

in the Marines. "My life has been falling apart since I returned from Iraq,"

Schulze said in the record.

He also was taking medication for "excruciating pain every day," which he

said resulted from carrying heavy military gear that included, his father

said, a 120-pound machine gun. Under "personal strengths," Schulze replied:

"Big heart."

Jim and Marianne Schulze said the mental health records from the Minneapolis

veterans hospital show a disturbing plea for help that suggest suicidal

inclinations.

In one record from a visit on Feb. 16, 2006, Schulze "stated that something

will set him off (e.g., seeing a person of Middle Eastern descent) and he

will start shaking and feel extremely upset. On a daily basis, his temper

will lead him to punch windows and holes in walls. ... The veteran further

reported that several times per day he will experience uncontrollable

episodes of extreme anxiety that are triggered by military reminders."

Schulze told counselors that he heard "intrusive military-related sounds"

such as Middle East religious ceremonies and saw combat images in

flashbacks.

The two investigators in the Schulze case came from the VA's Office of the

Medical Inspector, which Burns said is an independent, objective

organization that Congress established to monitor veteran care.

He said the inspectors would be talking with the Schulze family, although

Jim Schulze said Friday he hadn't heard from them.

Burns said the findings will be shared with members of Congress who have

oversight responsibilities for the VA, as well as directors of the

Minneapolis and St. Cloud hospitals.

Jim Schulze, who served three tours of duty in Vietnam, said he's pressing

the VA for answers in his son's death to help other veterans who might be in

the same situation.

"The physical wounds will heal the best they can," he said of returning

veterans from Iraq. "The psychological wounds never will."

Kevin Giles . 612-673-7707 . kgiles@startribune.com

C2007 Star Tribune. All rights reserved.

-----Original Message-----

From: Langlie [mailto:slanglie@usfamily.net]

Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 10:09 AM

To: Colonel Dan Cedusky

Subject: VA medical records don't mention that veteran felt suicidal

Dear Colonel Dan:

This is an update on the investigation of the tragic, unnecessary suicide of

ex-Marine Schulze in New Prague, Minnesota. Please see the attached

article, which appeared in today's issue of the Minneapolis StarTribune.

Please note that the St. Cloud VAMC is in denial about their responsibility;

they claim Schulze did not mention the necessary phrase, "suicidal

thoughts". Note also that ex-Marine Schulze was diagnosed with PTSD at Camp

Pendleton, after returning from Iraq.

Please note also that the VA Medical Inspector sent out to investigate had

not yet conducted an interview with ex-Marine Schulze's father, as of last

Friday, Febr. 2nd.

Do we have a government "WHITE WASH" in progress here? Read it and draw

your own conclusions!

Sincerely,

Stephen L. Langlie

http://www.startribune.com/462/v-print/story/980748.html

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Edited February 5, 2007 by Berta

[Guest fla_viking]

Dear Fellow Veterans & Friends

I was in St Cloud in the early 80's There is black and white proof still in my file of them flasisfying my medical records and changing words to cover up an illegal use of seclusion. No one listened to me then. No one listen to that marine now. You Watch. Nothing will change at St Cloud.

Terry Higgins

[goofycow]

Oh yes!! My mental health record entries from the clinic at Fort Smith AR could be classified as award winning fiction The counselor I saw there had a very creative way of twisting what I said so that it appeared that I said the exact opposite of what i met to say. It was especially amusing the way the cllinic tried to cover up their lack of concern over my husband's death & how that might affect myoutlook on life. All they saw was a woman with a "rather severe personality disorder."

before I started going to that clinic I had been seen breifly by the people in St. cloud, MN. So maybe it is not surprising that I have been underwhelmed with the qulaity of care I have received at VA thus far.