C&P FOR PTSD - Weird experience - Please help

[FMFCorpsmen]

Hello everyone, 

 

I hope this finds you all well. So, quick background..

I was ADMIN Separated from the military, all while going through a MEDBOARD. I was send to a Medboard for PTSD, Depression, Anxiety, Inguinal nerve damage.. years of medical history showing these injuries.  My lawyer during this process stated that the Military found me fit because I was going through a ADMIN separation. All my doctors wrote letters to the board stating that all diagnosis were current. The Board came back to state that they did not believe my doctors and stated that my actions were for secondary gains. It was obvious, as per my lawyers, that the board was not fond of the fact that I was being Administratively (after 17 years. Because of my traumas, I acted out and go into trouble. My discharge was a General (Under Honorable)) and I was found fit. 

Fast forward a few months, here I am at the C&P... 

I went to the C&P and the provider was kind and respectful. She asked me questions about my past, she even started some small talk about how we had the same ethnic background.. 

She then began to ask me how the PTSD hinders my life. She went on to say " So, from what I see.. I don't think you can work?"... I replied, I am currently sleeping in my car.. I have nowhere to live. ( this is all true).. 

She then stated that she was having a hard time finding the exact moment when I suffered the personal assault..., but went on to say that she understands that most men don't report that...

I told her that she was absolutely right.. She then stated  "I see that you have been going to medical for depression for years, around that time of your assault.. I can almost hear "assault" through all the depression encounters, even though you didn't say it.. is that correct?"...

I began to cry because that was exactly the case. She then said, I understand and I am sorry..  I went on to say, I never had a provide pick up on it.. I was always so embarrassed to tell anyone about the assault, but I kept going in hopes someone would see it and help me..

 We spoke about my father.. 2) How my life was prior to the military 3) how I felt during the service 4) what I did on my off time ( I sleep in my car and at times, at a friend's couch, when I am really frightened.. in a closet.

She ended the meeting with " Do you have any questions".. I replied yes... I wanted to know how bad my depression is from a professional stand point since I don't have a provider anymore.. She stated, " I don't diagnose and I can't tell you how bad your symptoms are... but what I will tell you, and probably shouldn't... I think you case is severe..

She walked me to the lobby, said something to me in our native tongue.. and then said, " we will see you in 5 years...

- I remembered that I had forgotten to tell her about my memory problems (Ironic)... so I called and left her that exact message with my number... 15 minutes later, she called me laughing at my message, thanking me for calling since she had forgotten to ask me that.

I left very paranoid because I never seen a doctor like that.. 

I walked out feeling cared for, but then my paranoia set in.. I began question the whole encounter.. I began to ruminate on the fact that during my Medboard a doctor stated "Secondary gains," basically stating that I was trying to medically retire before getting separated  ( I was already in the Medboard process before getting in trouble).. Will they hold that against me?

 

All these things came to mind and then I found this group.. I am paranoid, anxious, struggling because I feel like I was being played with.. I have 3 doctors that have evaluated me and stated that I have these conditions.. I just don't know what to think.. 

Has anyone else had an experience like this?

[seminoles]

On 2/14/2021 at 11:19 PM, FMFCorpsmen said:

Hello everyone, 

 

I hope this finds you all well. So, quick background..

I was ADMIN Separated from the military, all while going through a MEDBOARD. I was send to a Medboard for PTSD, Depression, Anxiety, Inguinal nerve damage.. years of medical history showing these injuries.  My lawyer during this process stated that the Military found me fit because I was going through a ADMIN separation. All my doctors wrote letters to the board stating that all diagnosis were current. The Board came back to state that they did not believe my doctors and stated that my actions were for secondary gains. It was obvious, as per my lawyers, that the board was not fond of the fact that I was being Administratively (after 17 years. Because of my traumas, I acted out and go into trouble. My discharge was a General (Under Honorable)) and I was found fit. 

Fast forward a few months, here I am at the C&P... 

I went to the C&P and the provider was kind and respectful. She asked me questions about my past, she even started some small talk about how we had the same ethnic background.. 

She then began to ask me how the PTSD hinders my life. She went on to say " So, from what I see.. I don't think you can work?"... I replied, I am currently sleeping in my car.. I have nowhere to live. ( this is all true).. 

She then stated that she was having a hard time finding the exact moment when I suffered the personal assault..., but went on to say that she understands that most men don't report that...

I told her that she was absolutely right.. She then stated  "I see that you have been going to medical for depression for years, around that time of your assault.. I can almost hear "assault" through all the depression encounters, even though you didn't say it.. is that correct?"...

I began to cry because that was exactly the case. She then said, I understand and I am sorry..  I went on to say, I never had a provide pick up on it.. I was always so embarrassed to tell anyone about the assault, but I kept going in hopes someone would see it and help me..

 We spoke about my father.. 2) How my life was prior to the military 3) how I felt during the service 4) what I did on my off time ( I sleep in my car and at times, at a friend's couch, when I am really frightened.. in a closet.

She ended the meeting with " Do you have any questions".. I replied yes... I wanted to know how bad my depression is from a professional stand point since I don't have a provider anymore.. She stated, " I don't diagnose and I can't tell you how bad your symptoms are... but what I will tell you, and probably shouldn't... I think you case is severe..

She walked me to the lobby, said something to me in our native tongue.. and then said, " we will see you in 5 years...

- I remembered that I had forgotten to tell her about my memory problems (Ironic)... so I called and left her that exact message with my number... 15 minutes later, she called me laughing at my message, thanking me for calling since she had forgotten to ask me that.

I left very paranoid because I never seen a doctor like that.. 

I walked out feeling cared for, but then my paranoia set in.. I began question the whole encounter.. I began to ruminate on the fact that during my Medboard a doctor stated "Secondary gains," basically stating that I was trying to medically retire before getting separated  ( I was already in the Medboard process before getting in trouble).. Will they hold that against me?

 

All these things came to mind and then I found this group.. I am paranoid, anxious, struggling because I feel like I was being played with.. I have 3 doctors that have evaluated me and stated that I have these conditions.. I just don't know what to think.. 

Has anyone else had an experience like this?

I had what I thought was the best examiner ever, finally someone who not only got it but emphathized, NOPE when she started asking the financial questions she asked if I received child support and how much.  I answered because I didn't want a fiduciary assigned to me.  She was shocked by the amount I received, so she wrote an ENTIRE PARAGRAPH about how wealthy we are??? then went on to say my rating shoudl be 50% for bipolar disorder and ptsd, which had been written as bipolar disorder (panic disorder with agorphobia, severe panic disorder, general anxiety disorder) I asked for a new exam and was seen through VES  and was awarded 100% for mh.  So, don't just trust someone who was nice to to you that doesn't mean they are going to give you a favorable outcome.  I hope in your case it does.  When I left that first exam I thought wow, I wish she was my provider.  NOT.

 

[Berta]

Thank you Seminoles, for pointing out this Fact-

I could write a book on it-

I have seen many reasons why a C & P examiner will say one or two positive things in the course of an exam but then their actual report is far different.

I called a C & P doctor long ago who had made a terrible statement in, as the VA indicated, in the SOC-knowing my husband was dead and could not speak for himself----

I was very angry with him, but he did not know that the VA had multiple copies of my husband's  autopsy-and he was stunned and told me in a round a bout way that he hated the pressure put on him to do C & P exams.This was long ago when the VA doctors did the exams, and not farmed out federal contractors, that do these exams now.Their names were often in the SOC.

Then he and I calmed down and he sent to me his actual exam report- the horrific speculation he had made about the cause of my husband's death, he had stated on the report, would have been far different if an autopsy had been done to reveal more info.

The VA manipulated his words, and also failed to give him a copy of the 6 page autopsy,which they had as I had to send them many copies of it- and that was one more deliberate attempt they made to deny my 1151  DIC claim.

Then ,even after the OGC settled with me for wrongful death , and with a full documented  copy of that FTCA result, the RO again denied the 1151 claim.

I was so pissed off I called the VA OGC attorney in DC ,who settled with me and told him VA owed me more money.

That got his attention fast and long story short-I got a copy of an order that the OGC had to send to me VARO and then they awarded the DIC 1151 claim, based on that order.

It was not about money at all when I called OGC.....-but  about VARO incompetence.

But there are other problems with C & P exams as well-

My stupid so-called former vet rep,years ago,  asked me to help a vet he was dealing with.

Within a few hours of studying his BVA denial, and studying two CAVC denials,and determining what his lawyers had never done, I knew he had a good claim for SC.

Unfortunately he was an absolute bully-calling and emailing me almost every day to do something fast-

long story- he won his claim  and I even prepared a letter to the VA telling them what his lawyers had not done , that I had done, and that they did not deserve the large legal  fee the VA was withholding from his comp.

I guess that worked and VA did not pay them, because I never heard from him again, and he was certainly one of the last veterans I ever dealt with by email and phone.

My daughter had not left for the Military yet and she could not believe the pressure this vet put on me, but I stuck it out because I new he had a Very good claim.

But, my point is that he had another C & P exam and called me and said the nurse who gave him the C & P exam said he definitely had diabetes in service ( the problem was that no one had studied his SMRs but me- not even his lawyers) and he was thrilled with that news.

But I had a feeling that he had definitely bullied and/or intimidated her to say that, and that she had no idea of how difficult it was for me to prove the inservice nexus-(it took over 3 weeks working daily with his SMRs and also medical literature on Endocrinology and acronyms  for me to do that and none of that was in his C file yet.)

He went ballistic when he got a copy of the actual  C & P exam and the VARO denied him again. The results of the exam in No way confirmed his diabetes as manifested  in service.

I think the nurse got to the point to say anything to get him out the door.

He was very angry talking to me about the exam but I had one more idea for him,to consider  and that is how I  got him his award.

He actually wanted me to sign a statement that, if he had to pay an IMO fee, but if his claim was still denied, I would have to pay him the IMO cash. Bull crap to that- 

I prepared a thorough  lay medical review of what I found in his SMRs for his private Endocrinologist , who did a brief IME for him referring to what I found in the SMRs, for free , , and he won his claim.

These federal contractors, in my opinion often do not have the proper  medical expertise in some of the exams they do.They get paid for whatever they prepare.

We had a vet here ,some time ago with a leg disability and he got a female gynecologist who did his C & P exam.

That was absurd. I think he griped with the contractor and got a better appropriate exam.At least that is what he should have done.

It makes me sick to think that often the only way a veteran can get a fair shake with VA is to hire a IMO/IME doctor. That might well be the first time their entire medical situation is ever reviewed in it's totality.

 

 

.

 

 

Edited February 16, 2021 by Berta
weather problems with PC

[broncovet]

The same thing happened to me seminoles.  I thought, "Gee what a nice examiner"...until I read what she said, instead of listening to her "kind" back stabbing words.  

Police sometimes do that, too.  The courts have ruled that a policmen (or detective) doesnt have to tell you the truth.  

So, they can say stuff like, "Oh, your friend already told us you shot him."   

"That RAT!  He shot them, all I did was load the gun".  

     They know how to get people to turn on their buddies.  

The examiner is not held accountable to their words, only what is documented, and they make the report.  

Neither are IRS employees, or VA employees, or generally, VSO's.  

     An IRS employee can tell you, "Sure, you can deduct that".  Then, some time later you get the "official' LETTER, telling you the truth.  

Ditto for VA employees and VSO's.  "Gee, Mr. Veteran, you must have misunderstood what I said.  I didnt tell you "not to apply", I said "go ahead and apply".  

    Given the courts permit, or even endorse lying, its no wonder why there is so much evil in the world.  You cant legislate morality. 

[Carl the Engineer]

"Police sometimes do that, too.  The courts have ruled that a policemen (or detective) doesn't have to tell you the truth.  

So, they can say stuff like, "Oh, your friend already told us you shot him."   

"That RAT!  He shot them, all I did was load the gun"." 

Bronc,

As a former LEO, you had me falling off my chair laughing.  You're not wrong, by any means, just a little simplistic.  I have, from my career in the Military and Law Enforcement, learned much.  My favorite comparison is when I was a Master Sergeant in the Army, no-one ever lied to me.  If my section member, or squad members when I was a platoon Sergeant screwed up and I called them on it, they would tell me exactly what they did and knew and expected the consequences.  As a patrol cop, I learned the first week that everyone lied to me (their stories where never exactly as things had happened).  After a year, I learned that Grandma's usually told the truth.  I arrested a guy (drunk, high, you pick) fighting his friends with a knife.  After stuffing him in the back of my car, everyone in the family to include the victims stated the was unbelievable behavior and he had never ever acted poorly in the past.  As I was leaving, an older lady came out to the house and I asked her if she knew the kid, and she stated that was her grandson and he has been a troublemaker since he was in grade school.  LOL.

I was a poor interviewer.  I don't like talking to people, especially strangers.  I was better at pulling drunk drivers out of the trees.  But, my Chief could talk your leg off.  I had 2 kids that destroyed a warehouse full (12) of antique collector cars with paint and battery acid.  $$$$ worth of damage.  Someone saw them leaving the building and I found them nearby.  I spoke to them and they said they saw the door open and went inside and found the damage and it was done before the entered.  I was laughing inside cause they had spray-paint on their fingers from the spray bombs.  I said, OK, and had them sit in the back of my car until their parents arrived.  My Chief arrived and spent at least a hour and a half with each kid, with the parent, and had 2 taped confessions after about 4 hours.  We use to say that anyone would admit to being on the grassy knoll just to get the Chief to stop talking.    

What I'm trying to expressing is with both cops and docs, the good ones have done so many interviews, they can tell the bull-shitters from the get go. 

Just be honest and tell your story,

Hamslice

 

      

 

 

[Berta]

I appreciate these comments here and they are NOT here to discourage anyone from filing and pursuing a MH claim.

It is just that many of us here are hardcore VA claimants, fully aware of the C & P 'landmines' in this War of the Words, the VA puts us into.

VA gave us a base of knowledge ,we never thought we would even need to have.

Regardless of what a C & P examiner says, it is the documented medical evidence that determines if they are right or wrong in most of their decisions- and of course, in MH claims the stressor , or incident that caused the MH disability ,has to be proven.

We have lots of info here on MST claims,and have had both men and women succeed in this type of claim.Some were afraid to even report what happened,while in the military but there are other ways to prove they suffered a serious traumatic MST event.

 

[seminoles]

6 hours ago, Berta said:

Thank you Seminoles, for pointing out this Fact-

I could write a book on it-

I have seen many reasons why a C & P examiner will say one or two positive things in the course of an exam but then their actual report is far different.

I called a C & P doctor long ago who had made a terrible statement in, as the VA indicated, in the SOC-knowing my husband was dead and could not speak for himself----

I was very angry with him, but he did not know that the VA had multiple copies of my husband's  autopsy-and he was stunned and told me in a round a bout way that he hated the pressure put on him to do C & P exams.This was long ago when the VA doctors did the exams, and not farmed out federal contractors, that do these exams now.Their names were often in the SOC.

Then he and I calmed down and he sent to me his actual exam report- the horrific speculation he had made about the cause of my husband's death, he had stated on the report, would have been far different if an autopsy had been done to reveal more info.

The VA manipulated his words, and also failed to give him a copy of the 6 page autopsy,which they had as I had to send them many copies of it- and that was one more deliberate attempt they made to deny my 1151  DIC claim.

Then ,even after the OGC settled with me for wrongful death , and with a full documented  copy of that FTCA result, the RO again denied the 1151 claim.

I was so pissed off I called the VA OGC attorney in DC ,who settled with me and told him VA owed me more money.

That got his attention fast and long story short-I got a copy of an order that the OGC had to send to me VARO and then they awarded the DIC 1151 claim, based on that order.

It was not about money at all when I called OGC.....-but  about VARO incompetence.

But there are other problems with C & P exams as well-

My stupid so-called former vet rep,years ago,  asked me to help a vet he was dealing with.

Within a few hours of studying his BVA denial, and studying two CAVC denials,and determining what his lawyers had never done, I knew he had a good claim for SC.

Unfortunately he was an absolute bully-calling and emailing me almost every day to do something fast-

long story- he won his claim  and I even prepared a letter to the VA telling them what his lawyers had not done , that I had done, and that they did not deserve the large legal  fee the VA was withholding from his comp.

I guess that worked and VA did not pay them, because I never heard from him again, and he was certainly one of the last veterans I ever dealt with by email and phone.

My daughter had not left for the Military yet and she could not believe the pressure this vet put on me, but I stuck it out because I new he had a Very good claim.

But, my point is that he had another C & P exam and called me and said the nurse who gave him the C & P exam said he definitely had diabetes in service ( the problem was that no one had studied his SMRs but me- not even his lawyers) and he was thrilled with that news.

But I had a feeling that he had definitely bullied and/or intimidated her to say that, and that she had no idea of how difficult it was for me to prove the inservice nexus-(it took over 3 weeks working daily with his SMRs and also medical literature on Endocrinology and acronyms  for me to do that and none of that was in his C file yet.)

He went ballistic when he got a copy of the actual  C & P exam and the VARO denied him again. The results of the exam in No way confirmed his diabetes as manifested  in service.

I think the nurse got to the point to say anything to get him out the door.

He was very angry talking to me about the exam but I had one more idea for him,to consider  and that is how I  got him his award.

He actually wanted me to sign a statement that, if he had to pay an IMO fee, but if his claim was still denied, I would have to pay him the IMO cash. Bull crap to that- 

I prepared a thorough  lay medical review of what I found in his SMRs for his private Endocrinologist , who did a brief IME for him referring to what I found in the SMRs, for free , , and he won his claim.

These federal contractors, in my opinion often do not have the proper  medical expertise in some of the exams they do.They get paid for whatever they prepare.

We had a vet here ,some time ago with a leg disability and he got a female gynecologist who did his C & P exam.

That was absurd. I think he griped with the contractor and got a better appropriate exam.At least that is what he should have done.

It makes me sick to think that often the only way a veteran can get a fair shake with VA is to hire a IMO/IME doctor. That might well be the first time their entire medical situation is ever reviewed in it's totality.

 

 

.

 

 

I asked the VA for a new exam after reading her "exam" notes and was sent to not one but two more exams, this was all because my neurologist and primary care doctors filled out the forms for aid and attendance and the quack they sent me to for my migraines (which my neurologist who is the chief of neurology and has been my neurologist for over 10 years wrote based my need for aid and attendance on my migraines and vestibular migraines), I had held that rating at 50% for over 8 years at that point and they sent me a proposal to reduce them to 0% when my records showed zero improvement and so many failed drugs.  I finally had THAT stopped to then fight then on my mh rating which was increased when I finally saw a non va examiner.   It was all around a complete circus honestly.  They now have my sinus infections secondary to my migraines and my vestibular disorder which is a very separate and distinct diagnosis like meniers  lumped in with my migraines.  Idiots abound at the St. petersburg RO and the vso aren't much better.

 

Edited February 16, 2021 by seminoles