ptsd Am I The Legal Surviving Spouse/widow Of Deceased Disbled Vet?

[Guest Gail]

I need help. This is kinda confusing, but I will try to explain. I married my now deceased husband the first time while he was in the military, 02-12-1971. We lived in my home state of Georgia. He suffered from 100% disability for PTSD from Vietnam. Ok..we divorced from our cerimonial marriage of 2-12-1971 due to his constant infidelity. BUT.. PRIOR to the divorce hearing we had reconcilled and I obtained the divorce anyway, and on the day our divorce was final, we formed a common law marriage which in Georgia as it was prior to 01-97 it is legal, and there had to be a divorce to end it. We carried on our lives as the usual married couple would. Nothing changed. We lived as husband and wife, presented as husband and wife and we did everything as husband and wife. We met all the criteria for legal common law married couples.

In Mid 1982, he deserted me due to his infidelity, and when the affair ended, He went back to his home state of Wisconsin in August of 1982. He told me he would take care of the divorce up there. He kept in touch with me thru all these years, and assured me we were divorced and he would send me the papers, 'when he found his copy'. Meanwhile, he remarries 3 times in WI, and has 2 children by a second marriage in Wisconsin, and was 'married' to #3 up there when he died. I remarried because I was pregnant, divorced my child's father and remarried him again. I have been divorced for 13 years from my childs dad.

I found out since I had not heard from him for several months, from his mom in WI, that on 06-28-01 he passed away. I was grief stricken and still am. About a year or so after I found about his death, I was curious as to when he divorced me in WI. I had a record search done. HE NEVER DIVORCED ME FROM OUR LEGAL COMMON LAW MARRIAGE. This means that neither of us were free to enter into any kind of marriage due to the fact that we were still married to each other. My marriages are not valid nor was any of his.

This has turned my world, and my daughters upside down. His mom talked me into applying for DIC.

I have sent in statements from his dad, (now deceased), his mom and his sister, along with statements from my sisters and some of our friends verifying that we lived as husband and wife, held ourselves out to be husband and wife and presented ourselves as married in every way. I even sent a statement from the man that owned a house we rented while we were in the common law marriage. Needless to say I am having fits from the VA. I sent in all this in July 2004, and after being told they never received it, sent it again, and still was told they didn't have it, questioned any claim for I was to do, was told nothing and I don't know who read all the info I sent in, but you would think they got their info from a completely different source than what I said, and they denied my claim. I sent in a disagreement letter. I had to beg for the form 21-5 something, and sent it, they denied getting it..I have sent 3 and still don't know. The Atlanta VA office says they cannot help me for the VA represented the 'other wife' and told me to use the VSO office here in Gainesville, and I did, and called and told them I had signed the power of attorney, within the 60 day period they gave me. I want and need representation. NOW GET THIS...I called the VA back and they told me that the VSO could not represent me because it was a part of the VA that had represented the 'other wife'...WHAT DO I DO? I spoke with a Mr. Gilmer here that is head of some Viet Vet thing state wide, I think, I explained it all to him and he said I had a case, that I was still legally married to my dead husband until he died, and not to give up. I have heard nothing more, received no more forms, not any kind of help nothing, and the power of attorney was mailed this July. So, who am I? Common sense tells me I am his widow, and this mess is awful. I meet all the VA requirements for surviving spouse, and can even use the continous cohabitation requirement, as he deserted me due to infidelity and I had no part in the separation,

SO WHAT DO I DO? Is there anyone out here that can help me? I am disabled now, and the 'other wife' quit her job and is not working and has been living with another man since 3 months after the death of the veteran. HELP, please!!!! Is this clear to anyone out there? Seems I was an unwilling bigamist. I guess I should have pressed more for the papers or check for myself. The deceased was in the process of going to divorce the 'other wife' and move back to GA but he died before he could.

[Guest Gail]

Berta, there seems to be some confusion here. I never stated that his death was service connected, he died from congestive heart failure. The VA said that I would have to apply, which I did for DIC, due to his years of being 100% VA disabled. These are the payments that the last woman he married receives. As to being the Valid Spouse, the laws of Georgia says I am and that our marriage was legal and it had to be ended by a divorce. which it never was, but he told me it was and I was stupid not to have checked.

I do not know what state you lived with your boyfriend was in, if they allowed the formation of common law marriages, accepted them as legal, nor if you met the guidelines as being common law married. Georgia permitted legal common law marriages up until 01-97. Any common law marriage that was formed prior to that day is accepted as being legal. There has to be an intention of being married by u both, an agreement to be married and present yourself as such, hold your self out as such. Just cohabiting with someone in a state that does still does, or did during the time you cohabited with your boyfriend,permit common law marriages, and also the time prior to 01-97, in GA, did not make you common law married. Did I make that clear, I hope I explained it to you. Some states from what I have read reqire you to have been living together for x number of years..but not so in GA. Your life togther must be as husband and wife in every aspect...and there has to be the intention that you are married. I have done a lot of research on the common law marriages and as I had stated prior, If you form or enter into a marriage in a state which accepts that marriage as being legal and binding, if it is legal in the state in which it was formed, it is accepted as being legal in any state, even if they do not recognize common law marriages being formed in their state. Our common law marriage that was formed between us, by us when the divorce was final, as I have explained in the prior posts, has to be accepted as being legal in any state. As there is no such thing as a 'common law divorce', you have to have a 'divorce' to end the marriage or die, or have it annulled.

According to the laws of GA, where our marriage was formed, I was married to him up until his death.

I also referred to the Continuous Cohabition clause in I think the 38 C.F.R, that even though we were not living together at the time of his death, because he deserted me and our marriage, and I did not have a part of this desertion, I didn't leave him, etc, that makes the cContinuous Cohabition clause fit my situation.

I hope I stated that correctly.

This has nothing to do with service connected death, and as I said, according to Civil law, I am his 2nd and last wife. In no state can you enter into a marriage if you have a living spouse. I think you have misunderstood this. There is a big difference between a live in boyfriend, and a common law spouse, and if you claim to be married and common law marriages were legal in the state you lived with him in, and if you used his name, etc. Most of all the intent.

I'm sorry but your statement about 'I get it frim my valid spouse' somewhat sounded demeaning to me.

You stated that 'even if you never remarried' throws me off. 'and getting a divorce' is just what it states, he died before he could.

Our two sitations are different. If you lived in a 'common law state' and you met the requirements for your relationship to be a common law marriage' and you split up, you were supposed to get a divorce to end that if you were in that situation. Just walking away does not make it ended.

Thanks for your input, Bertha, I appreciate it.

Gail

[Guest Gail]

Well 10, I will try and answer you with niceness. Here goes:

As to your 1st paragraph: Thinking one is divorced and BEING divorced is two different things. He lied to me about it. We kept in close contact over the years, and I was stuid for not trying to obtain the proof of our divorce as he knew he had to obtain, and told me he did. As to his wishes of burial...he did not change his mind, his parents knew that and asked her to do that and she refused. That wish still stood at his death, and cremation is cheaper. Is that explanitory? I was his legal wife at the time and just did not know it then.

Your second paragraph: As your father in law is a judge, is he familiar with the laws of Georgia which pertain here? If he is a judge in Georgia, or read up on the GA laws concerning this, he would see that a legal divorce had to have been obtained. We knew we were married at the time of the desertion. He knew he had to get a divorce as he told me he would handle it and that he did handle it, but he did not, which that left me thinking I was divorced and him KNOWING we were not divorced. I remarried with the belief that I had been divorced in Wisconsin because I was naieve enought to believe him and as I said, no matter who he was married to he kept in close contact with me thru all these years. Why drag up all this crap now?

Because right is right and wrong is wrong. I cannot change the fact that we were not divorced as I thought, and make my marriages to my childs father legal when by law they are not. That makes me as having been living a lie for all these years and not knowing it, and no matter where, my marriages to my childs father were not legal. You say it is best to just live a lie?

To your 3rd paragraph: How can you say anything about how my daughter feels? You can never say you know how someone feels unless you have stood in the very same shoes in the very same situation. How can you say she 'shouldnt be' ? You have no right to speak of how my daughter should feel. Then, 'getting some money out of this" PLEASE...... just as his family feels, and urged me to do this, as he led me to believe we were no longer married, I was, under Georgia law, married to him, like it or not, and that marriage was only ended when he died, and under the law I am his widow, and his surviving spouse. Research Georgia laws before you speak.

Next Paragraph: How can you speak for any judge? Did God already give you the answer to that? You are wrong on your superceedings, sir. Nothing could make the legal commn law marriage null and void was either a legal divorce, an annulment. What it did was make the remarriages of either my dead spouse and myself null and void. You need to check this gain. How is it plausable to think that? Please let me know where you find that a prior marriage can be null and void, if it was never dissolved, or annuled, because you remarry without ending a prior marriage.

Next paragraph: I married him while he was still in the military, (already stated) this was after Nam. I went thru almost 13 years of being with him before the desertion, and you can tell me nothing about living with untreated PTSD. You have no clue what I went thru. How dare you insinuate I know nothing of it. It was I who had police searching the woods for him during a flashback many times to find him, cause he thought he was back in Nam, It was I who learned never to touch him to wake him in the mornings, but to stand away from the bed and call his name to wake him; it was I who watched him in such emotional pain that he would slash his arms with a razor blade, it was I who tried before he got out of the Army to get him help, and it was not my fault that our friend, his First Sgt. who was to see that he was to be going and getting help and didnt, It was I who would find a man huddled in a corner crying because of the pain he was in..it was I who held him and comforted him and begged him to please, please get help to try and end this pain. It was to whom he revealed the horror and trauma, and everything that goes with war, and could not do anything but love him. It was I who knew that he did things that were not of his nature, nor in his control, it was I who would be awkened in the night when a dream came to him and he grabbed me thinking I was the enemy, and to sob when he would realize who I was. So dont dare try and tell me anything about PTSD, I lived that war for all those years. There is a hell of a difference when someone is getting treatment and meds for it. I tried with everything in me to get him to seek the help so desperately needed. How dare you EVEN speak to me about his poor family and that. I lived with him for all those years, and no other marriage he entered into illegally, ever lasted ...one was 1 year, the #2 was 2.5 yrs..and the #3 was just barely 3 years. It was I who tried so hard to understand, and it was I who hurt so terribly for him. As a matter of fact my dear sir, I still hurt about it today and have all these years, and am crying at the typing of this to you. So you think his other illegal spouses endured more than I did? Count the years, then tell me that, OK? How can you even speak of something you have no information on which to base your statements? Do you have PSTD? Are you a Nam Vet? If you have PTSD are you being treated with medication? Can you speak firsthand about suffering from PTSD. I feel as tho I was standing there with him when a guy he went in with, went thru all training with, and to jump school and shipped to Nam together, was walking point one night and stepped on a mine and was blown all over him..I feel as tho I watched every engagement he was in from afar..I saw the horror he experienced. I knew that there was a big part of his being that would never 'come home from that hell of a war'. How dare you?

Next-let him rest. He is free atlast from the demons and hauntings of the war. Death was the only way he could have peace. But how would you know. He needs to rest where he fought like hell to survive and for the right to lay amongst the nations dead that served this country too. But now I pray he soars free from the hell he had been in just as brave, and as the proud Eagle he was. You see, whether it matters or not, there was always a love between him and I, we never let go of each other. I don't expect you to even care or understand. It was the PTSD that destroyed all of his relationships. He lied to me, simply. I know you dont care about this ether, but many times when we talked, he always told me I would always be the only wife he would ever have, and he would be in love with me till he died. You dont know how much I regret not going to him when he wanted me to leave with my child and come there. So how dare you. You know nothing of what is in my heart, or was in his, you know nothing to speak as you have.

Your last statement: You are so wrong. I am his widow. You did not write the laws of this state nor you seem not to have taken the time to research them. His family, his mom, dad, sister, all willingly gave statements about our time together and the fact of us still being married, and tell me my kind sir, these people, his family, what could they gain by telling the truth. He had them thinking also that he did as he said and divorced me up there. His family stands beside me in this.

[10thFO]

Gail,

Honestly I feel for your guilt. The man is dead let him be. You said " I know you dont care about this ether, but many times when we talked, he always told me I would always be the only wife he would ever have, and he would be in love with me till he died. You dont know how much I regret not going to him when he wanted me to leave with my child and come there."

I can understand that you feel guilty about not going when he told you this, but that is your cross not to bear, why would you lay the other stuff on your child.

Yes I too know about PTSD. I also now about PTSD with meds, and without them. And believe me, no my PTSD is not from Vietnam, but I know from my veteran brothers whom I have shared tears with at our Vet Center meetings about all the nightmares, and how it's not just something relegated to one person, but something that many of us deal with.

He died in June of 2001. How come it has taken you to this point to do the "right" thing. You knew you couldn't trust him before when he told you that he would take care of the divorce. I've never heard of a divorce where there wasnt' a public search in the state of said record in the newspapers looking for the other spouse to meet in court.

You didn't care to find out even though you talked to him all these years, whether or not he had actually divorced. You went and got married again and once more. Now when you learned he had died you won't to dream up some concoction that legally you were still his wife.

If you loved him that much why did you sign the divorce papers. Obviously in marrying another man, twice, you were admitting to yourself that you had moved on and to something better for you.

I don't even know how much the DIC would be, but evidently it's more than a $250 payment that Social Security would have given.

You can rant and rave and tell me your crying and your life has been turned upside down, but if it weren't for the money involved then you wouldn't give two shits about his ashes up on a closet shelf.

You wouldn't even have persued it, but you know he was SC for 100% PTSD and you think you have a right to the money now.

One other thing, PTSD vets don't typically go around telling their spouses about their experiences. Especially if they haven't been through counseling.

Cry me a river, but I'm calling a spade a spade. God rest your former husband, and his legal wife that you are dragging through the mud with this.

[JR Reihs]

Gail

Sorry to hear about your plight in this, but if you do not have a order from a court showing that you are his Widow, you are beating a dead horse with the VA.

Even if you have one, this still may not entitle you to DIC.

I wish you luck, as you are fighting an uphill battle, without the ammo that you need.

[Guest Gail]

Thank you JH. I do infact have an attorney that is going thru this with me. He is handling the unravelling of this along with my legal name change. I thank you for your response, and I realize what the battle is going to be. We can't turn back time and undo what has been done, but once you realize you have done wrong, which I did by trusting him implicititly, and always getting the answer that 'I will send you a copy when I find where I put them;. I should have had a search done earlier. I will hang in there as advised,, and go the distance.

Gail

[10thFO]

As an aside to all of this, I would suggest that any of you who are married to a Vet with PTSD or live with one, or are the family of one, I would take the promises they give you with a grain of salt. My wife has come to learn that in fact I do love her, but not to trust me with matters of responsibility, whether they be financial or anything else.

Believe me, my experiences changed me very much, and I don't trust myself, that's why I let my wife handle everything. If i didn't we'd be divorced and I'd never see my son. Truthfully I don't know that I should be allowed.

I realize that you want to believe people and how good they are, but honestly, if it weren't a major problem the VA wouldn't recognize it.

I apologize to all who have to live with a PTSD vet. I'm just trying to control mine so my son isn't too messed up.