ptsd Am I The Legal Surviving Spouse/widow Of Deceased Disbled Vet?

[Guest Gail]

I need help. This is kinda confusing, but I will try to explain. I married my now deceased husband the first time while he was in the military, 02-12-1971. We lived in my home state of Georgia. He suffered from 100% disability for PTSD from Vietnam. Ok..we divorced from our cerimonial marriage of 2-12-1971 due to his constant infidelity. BUT.. PRIOR to the divorce hearing we had reconcilled and I obtained the divorce anyway, and on the day our divorce was final, we formed a common law marriage which in Georgia as it was prior to 01-97 it is legal, and there had to be a divorce to end it. We carried on our lives as the usual married couple would. Nothing changed. We lived as husband and wife, presented as husband and wife and we did everything as husband and wife. We met all the criteria for legal common law married couples.

In Mid 1982, he deserted me due to his infidelity, and when the affair ended, He went back to his home state of Wisconsin in August of 1982. He told me he would take care of the divorce up there. He kept in touch with me thru all these years, and assured me we were divorced and he would send me the papers, 'when he found his copy'. Meanwhile, he remarries 3 times in WI, and has 2 children by a second marriage in Wisconsin, and was 'married' to #3 up there when he died. I remarried because I was pregnant, divorced my child's father and remarried him again. I have been divorced for 13 years from my childs dad.

I found out since I had not heard from him for several months, from his mom in WI, that on 06-28-01 he passed away. I was grief stricken and still am. About a year or so after I found about his death, I was curious as to when he divorced me in WI. I had a record search done. HE NEVER DIVORCED ME FROM OUR LEGAL COMMON LAW MARRIAGE. This means that neither of us were free to enter into any kind of marriage due to the fact that we were still married to each other. My marriages are not valid nor was any of his.

This has turned my world, and my daughters upside down. His mom talked me into applying for DIC.

I have sent in statements from his dad, (now deceased), his mom and his sister, along with statements from my sisters and some of our friends verifying that we lived as husband and wife, held ourselves out to be husband and wife and presented ourselves as married in every way. I even sent a statement from the man that owned a house we rented while we were in the common law marriage. Needless to say I am having fits from the VA. I sent in all this in July 2004, and after being told they never received it, sent it again, and still was told they didn't have it, questioned any claim for I was to do, was told nothing and I don't know who read all the info I sent in, but you would think they got their info from a completely different source than what I said, and they denied my claim. I sent in a disagreement letter. I had to beg for the form 21-5 something, and sent it, they denied getting it..I have sent 3 and still don't know. The Atlanta VA office says they cannot help me for the VA represented the 'other wife' and told me to use the VSO office here in Gainesville, and I did, and called and told them I had signed the power of attorney, within the 60 day period they gave me. I want and need representation. NOW GET THIS...I called the VA back and they told me that the VSO could not represent me because it was a part of the VA that had represented the 'other wife'...WHAT DO I DO? I spoke with a Mr. Gilmer here that is head of some Viet Vet thing state wide, I think, I explained it all to him and he said I had a case, that I was still legally married to my dead husband until he died, and not to give up. I have heard nothing more, received no more forms, not any kind of help nothing, and the power of attorney was mailed this July. So, who am I? Common sense tells me I am his widow, and this mess is awful. I meet all the VA requirements for surviving spouse, and can even use the continous cohabitation requirement, as he deserted me due to infidelity and I had no part in the separation,

SO WHAT DO I DO? Is there anyone out here that can help me? I am disabled now, and the 'other wife' quit her job and is not working and has been living with another man since 3 months after the death of the veteran. HELP, please!!!! Is this clear to anyone out there? Seems I was an unwilling bigamist. I guess I should have pressed more for the papers or check for myself. The deceased was in the process of going to divorce the 'other wife' and move back to GA but he died before he could.

[Guest Berta]

Gail- I regret that what I posted here sometime back must have sounded like it was demeaning-

what I meant- is that " legal valid" wife for VA purposes can mean common law wife-a "deemed valid spouse"-

You are correct that common law can be a deemed valid marriage for VA purposes-

But if the VA determines that you are the only wife -for VA purposes-

I think they will still look at what spouse continuously lived with the veteran up to time of his death.

Also if they had children-that too would be factored into their decision.

I even wonder if he would be even somehow considered at death as still married to one of the other spouses-too- that would be awful---

Do you receive your SSA benefits on his record?

that would seem to indicate that a federal agency has deemed you as the valid wife-

Gail- I have tried to put myself into your position and also the other wife's position-as I have read these VA regs.

when I do that it seems that you both have a good argument for receipt of DIC-but what the VA will do is very hard to determine.

Someone here mentioned getting the advise of an attorney on this-I think they said in Georgia as well as Wisconsin-

This could take years to resolve-because the VA would have to declare the DIC they already awarded as an error and the other wife could certainly challenge that.

The VA , as I understand you, has already sent you a denial letter?

It contains the focus of what you have to prove.

Your claim could take years. My own DIC claim took over three years but for different reasons than yours.

Many disabled vets here have waited a lot longer than that for compensation.

I hope- and I do believe -that you have realised this already.

This board provides great support for the waiting game-

I do feel that this claim involves state legal issues that we don't have the expertise on.

But as long as you respond to any letters with whatever they ask for- you are continuing the claim-

Have you filed a formal Notice of Disagreement to their denial yet?

Berta

[Guest Gail]

Berta, thank you for your comments to my situation. I am as lost as a goose in a hail storm with all this mess. A marriage, anywhere can only be ended by death, divorce, or annullment, or having them declared void...as the were never valid anyway. I think I am correct in that last statement about void.

None of his marriages even to #3 that was living with him at his death could be legal, due to the impediment of him having a living spouse, that would be me...the one he said he divorced but didn't on our second go round with our common law marriage. Nor are either marriages, and I married the father of my child two times as I stated before, but we have been divorced for 13 years and I have not lived with another man, muchless in as aspect of being married..neither of these are valid either. From the research I have done, the many hours, It comes down to our final separation that caused us to be apart in the first place, was no doings of mine. I am blameless in that, he deserted me with another woman. As i have read in the 38CFR, that can be used to prove continuous cohabitation as it was no fault of mine.

He had children with illegal wife #2 up there, not with the #3 (dang, I just have to refer to them as numbers)

I stated about them in the other posts, and what THEIR mother should have done..as per the VA. They received nothing but his SS according to his mom.

Yes, I receive my disability as of October this year, on my own record.

The denial letter they sent me stated things that were supposed to have been given in my information to them about this whole mess, and it was as if they were looking at something besides what I said. I sent my Letter of disagreement, and broke their reply down, line by line according to what I had said in my letter and what they and turned around. For instance, they said that I stated we lived on and off together. That was no where in my letter, they said he and I borne a child together, which the only thing we had was a miscarriage in 80 or 81 when I was 6-8 wks pregnant. Now that is not having a child in the sense they stated, like I had a child of his here; there was so much discrepancy it was unreal. I had to beg for the form 21-534, claim, I think that is the right number, I have sent in 3 and they still tell me they don't have one yet. I sat that is Bull crap. Nor have they sent me any Form 9 as I have read about, nor anyother forms to complete. They told me to get affadavits from persons who knew us and even his parents, and sister, who have absolutely nothing to gain from telling about our common law marriage and that we lived as husband and wife, presented ourselves as such, and held ourselves out as such; along with my living family, (sisters) and from friends we had that are still alive or that are still here. It was a year before they even acknowledged receipt of the original I sent them, but I had to send that in 2 times, and they still said they didnt get the second one..and out of the blue i get this screwed up denial, written by a person who certainly could not spell nor use the English language as it should be used.

I am going to go to my Congressman who has an office here, and lay out all this for him and let him see what's what.

Berta, I have received NOTHING FROM THE VA ABOUT A 'FORMAL NOTICE OF DISAGREEMENT' They told me to write a letter, titled 'Letter of Disagreement, put the file number they had given me, his info on it and address the facts as to why I was disagreeing and they would take it from there. Nobody can tell me anything about anything when I call the VA.

If there is a VSO out here, Help I need you. Berta, I think this will finish my breakdown, and as my physical pain and illnesses get worse each day, I am gonna hang till I die if I have to. I hold the severe PTSD he suffered from responsible for everything. I know in my heart that had it not been for that, things would not be as they are now. Take a look at his track record for marriages, as I posted the length of each in another post. I spent I spent almost 12 years with him, and nobody even came close to that; 1 yr, 3-4 yrs, and just over 3 yrs by the anniversary date before he died for the last one.

Can you imagine how I felt when I found out he had never divorced me as he told me he had? My whole wolrd turned upside down. I was in enough grief over his passing and still am, and then find out he was still my husband and I could not keep the 1 promise he made me swear to keep when he died? This is all so very hurtful and upsetting that I am crying as I type this. I cant even go to WI and go to his grave and lay flowers upon it and cry and grieve for him. He's slung in a closet while the merry widow lives with the man she moved in his house 3 wks after his death. Even his mom cant put flowers on a grave. His father tried to get her to follow the wishes his son had to be buried among the Veterans in a war memorial cemetary and she would not hear of it. She even quit working in order to be income eligible for everything. The man she lives with does quite well, so I have been told. But that is neither here nor there.

Like someone who is head of a Vietnam Veterans thing here and reaches pretty much statewide, I have a claim, and the VA just wants me to get disgusted and throw my hands up and give up. Yes, I have read how long deserving vets have had to wait, and I think it is a shame and a travesty that the US treats the men who fought in the wars. It makes me sick. But I am only one voice. I do think that the people out here who went thru the Vietnam era, lost loved ones and friends in that war, look at things so differently, having lived in that era, than now. So when you people out here think of those you lost to the war, please remember something I read somwhere, "As long as someone remembers you, you are never forgotten' and you know what, I dont think that one single man or boy that fell in that war, or this war will ever be forgotten, even tho the Viet Vets are the "Forgotten' so said, as long as one friend, or family member is alive and know that that loss still exists.

[frosty69]

Gail.

I don't know much about the va, when it comes to your story, but I do know, that if you were is wife at one time in the past or if you still are, when he died, then you are eligible for his social security, especially if it is more then you are getting on your own record. doesn't matter if he had thirty wive's, they all would get the same, if they are eligible and the kids would too, whomever they belong to. At least that is how it works up here in MN, I don't know if states vary or not, but something to checked out, to try and get more money.

[Guest Gail]

Thanks frosty. From all I can understand, I was his first wife, we divorced, were living together at the time before and when our divorce became final, and on the final decree date of 09-08-78, we formed our common law and thus our 2nd marriage, the one he led me to believe all these years that he had divorced me from when he deserted me for reasons already stated, when he returned to his home state of WI. Our common law marriage was formed in the state (GA) that we met in, married both times in and the common law marriage was legal, thus as we both knew, there had to be a divorce obtained. I researched the SS part when I was researching all the VA stuff, and had our 1st marriage lasted either 9 or 10 years, yes, then I could have drawn his SS, if we had been divorced. But I have not even approached the SS about this delimma yet, as mine on my own record just started last month, and you know how confusing SS can get and I wanted mine to level out before I presented this to them

None of his other wives had even close to the amount of marriage time to him to have received it as being divorced from him. there was 1 marriage he had that lasted 1.5 yrs; the next (that he had children in) lasted almosg 4 years, and the last on in which he died just barely made it 3 years. I was with him for almost 12 yrs, and now find out that we were married all that time anyway. I do know that his children drew his SS and no VA benefits, as I found a couple of weeks ago they should have, had their mother applied for them. I think now both children are 18 and20 maybe, so thats that for that part. I have no clue if the 'merry widow' got benefits for them from the VA or what. Just wish me luck on my endeavors, and hope I can set right the mistakes that were made. I know many of you don't see it like that, but why should I live a lie, and not have been honest with my daughter, (if you read back all these posts) about what was going on. You know, the sad part of it is, I think that because my daughter had such an uncanny resemblence to the deceaed and his daughter, that my now deceased father in law died a year ago feeling in his heart that she was his grand daughter. But she is not. Even tho we parted in mid 1982, and he went back to WI in Aug 1982, there was no way that my daughter that was born 10/12/1983 could have been his.

I cannot as I said earlier in response to someone, turn back time, and know what I know now and make things right as they should have been, I take blame and accept it by being so trusting and naieve as not to have found out personally with the court system in Milwaukee, the truth, instead of what he told me. So I take the blame for that part of it. I just don't want to live this lie I have discovered. That my childs dad that I married 2 times, were not valid marriages, for I had not the right to enter into another marriage, muchless 2, with my having a living husband, that I didn't know was still my husband. That means they were void, and dont count. Just as his. That is why I am having my last name changed legally back to the last name I carried as the deceased wife. I am informing the court that my reason for the name change is as I have stated here.

Say you are from MN? My deceased husbands relatives came from Ely, MN, that's where his dad and all the others were from.

God bless you and thank you so much for your input. It is just like Berta said, this board is good for lots of things during the waiting games of the VA and while fighting for the injustices there in. I thank all of you for letting me express myself here, and for all the input each and everyone of you have taken the time to be concerned enough to even input. Like I said before and others have stated, I am in for a long, hard fight, and I need somebody's hand to hold while going thru it, that has any clue of what I am up against here and that understand what life with PTSD was and is. His family, nor mine never could understand, But even before there was treatment when he went back to Milwaukee, I still have my battle scars, and wounds and

due to my love for him after all this and these years, and all the contact thru the years, will always have my memory of all the emotional hurt and anger he carried due to that war, and will remember and feel it just like it was yesterday, and the helplessness I was in to help.

[Guest Berta]

Gail- every state has either a state Division of Veterans Affairs or a Veterans Commission that provides representation-

Here is a link to all Vet organizations that provide help too-

http://www1.va.gov/vso/index.cfm?template=view

If you tell me your state and what part of it you are in (nearest city) maybe I can narrow down a veterans organization for you there-

[frosty69]

Gail:

My wife and I were up to Ely 2 weeks ago, to visit relatives, as I have a 87 year old aunt that has lived up there for the last 40 years, also a counsin and her husband, plus other counsins, that have cabins on the one of the lakes up there, real pretty country, but Ely itself is sorta of a shabby looking town, for a resort town. Who knows maybe my relatives might know your ex- relatives.