ptsd Non Combat Ptsd

[missouriMedic]

So I am being treated for PTSD thru the VA for almost a year now. I went in to talk to someone about depression and other issues with it and have been advised that it is PTSD from when I was in the Air Force in Germany and was harassed by the NCO's and NCOIC of my shop for over 6 months until I PCS'd out to the states and then got out. While in Germany and being harassed, I started drinking heavily and became very depressed and paranoid. When I got out I was drinking very heavily, and started doing drugs and this was the mid 90's when crack was running wild thru America, I tried and kill my self one day after being busted trying to sell some drugs and when that did not work I went to the VA for help. I went to the ER one day and they told me that there was no room for them to help me and gave me a Rx for thiamine and a antidepressant and sent me on my way with no follow up. So flash forward 19 years and here I am sitting in a BH office breaking down and I don't know why when they tell me this is all due the stress of the harassed in Germany and cant believe I made it this far with no help ( Its was really hard, not married, depressed all the time, tired and kill my self 3 times).

But anyway I filed a claim for depression, HTN, and sleep disorder. back in March 31st 2014. My VA BH doc wrote a letter to the review and started that I have severe PTSD and can not work, along with my PCP wrote a letter, and I went and paid for a privet BH doc to review and look at my records and she also wrote a letter stating severe PTSD. All of which I have filled. All I have heard from them is that they wanted a signed form 21-4142 which I signed and sent in. Other than that I have not heard a thing. I get treatment thru the VA monthly seeing the BH doc's and taking the med's.

I was wondering about the fact that I was denied treatment and care back in 1995 when I went to the VA ER in St Louis for treatment and help and was turned away. they never even gave me a VA card. I think that they never signed be up for benefits back then. I can prove that I was seen due to the fact that I have records shows Rx that were given to me back then in my VA medical records but not sure if they show that I was seen in the ER for I cant get them to show me the records.

So what do you all think I should do from this point.

[missouriMedic]

Well I am not sure why I have not had any replies yet. I guess I need to ask certain questions.

What are my chances of getting some type of disability.

If disability is awarded what %

How far back will it be awarded? 2014 or 1995

[Berta]

Sorry no one answered yet........

You fall under the new 2010 PTSD regulations here in the PTSD forum.

Since you have the PTSD VA diagnosis that hurdle is over.

I don't see here any specific stressor mentioned in your post and the VA will need proof of the stressor that caused the PTSD.

If the VA awards you for PTSD, the retro will be back to the date of the formal claim you filed.

Also with the Drs statement they will probably consider you for TDIU .

But they need a valid stressor and proof of it since you are not OIF OEF veteran.

I geared this past post to combat stressors but a vet can sure experience non combat stressors and have PTSD.



Harassment alone I do not think the VA would consider to be a stressor,unless there is proof of a personal assault as well.

If it involved physically aggressive assaults against you and definitely if it involved sexual harrassment,or rape , then with proof of that the VA might well consider this is a stressor.

VA realises that many MST cases and personal assault cases often have no record in the SMRs or 201 file, However there are other ways to prove these things did happen in the service.

You might need some buddy statements.

You will receive a VCAA letter telling you what info the VA still needs.

[carlie]

So I am being treated for PTSD thru the VA for almost a year now. I went in to talk to someone about depression and other issues with it and have been advised that it is PTSD from when I was in the Air Force in Germany and was harassed by the NCO's and NCOIC of my shop for over 6 months until I PCS'd out to the states and then got out. While in Germany and being harassed, I started drinking heavily and became very depressed and paranoid. When I got out I was drinking very heavily, and started doing drugs and this was the mid 90's when crack was running wild thru America, I tried and kill my self one day after being busted trying to sell some drugs and when that did not work I went to the VA for help.

In order to get SC'd for this you will need a diagnosis from the MH peeps that state something like

they have reviewed your claims file - they have DX'd you with PTSD due to XYZ on active duty or

they have DX'd you with depression due to XYZ on active duty, and support both / either, with full

medical rationale such as: per smr's or evidence dated XX/XX/XXXX, blah, blah, blah, it is their opinion

these DX MH conditions are at least as / more likely, as not related to active duty.

As for the suicide attempt, they are more likely than not, going to state it was due to getting busted for

selling the drugs.

BTW - they will need to show support of their diagnosis by the criteria in the DSM.

This might be difficult for them to do based on harassment, it can only be done with sufficient evidence

to support the opinion.

I went to the ER one day and they told me that there was no room for them to help me and gave me a Rx for thiamine and a antidepressant and sent me on my way with no follow up. So flash forward 19 years and here I am sitting in a BH office breaking down and I don't know why when they tell me this is all due the stress of the harassed in Germany and cant believe I made it this far with no help ( Its was really hard, not married, depressed all the time, tired and kill my self 3 times).

But anyway I filed a claim for depression, HTN, and sleep disorder. back in March 31st 2014. My VA BH doc wrote a letter to the review and started that I have severe PTSD and can not work, along with my PCP wrote a letter, and I went and paid for a privet BH doc to review and look at my records and she also wrote a letter stating severe PTSD.

Although you might have a DX for PTSD / Depression, many other things are needed first to get this SC'd.

A diagnosis alone won't cut it.

IMO - this will be a difficult case for SC of a mental health disorder. Regardless of how severe your symptomology is

the VBA will first have to adjudicate whether it is even service connected or not.

Did you submit any evidence of the harassment, buddy statement's, old letters you wrote home to family, performance

evaluations that show a decline at the time, etc . . .

All of which I have filled. All I have heard from them is that they wanted a signed form 21-4142 which I signed and sent in. Other than that I have not heard a thing. I get treatment thru the VA monthly seeing the BH doc's and taking the med's.

Treatment and warranting SC are two different things, always go to treatment if needed.

I was wondering about the fact that I was denied treatment and care back in 1995 when I went to the VA ER in St Louis for treatment and help and was turned away. they never even gave me a VA card. I think that they never signed be up for benefits back then. I can prove that I was seen due to the fact that I have records shows Rx that were given to me back then in my VA medical records but not sure if they show that I was seen in the ER for I cant get them to show me the records.

Personally, I would have or would now submit, the records above in regard to the claim,

if it is evidence that would help support the claim issue/s.

When were you discharged from active duty ?

Did you have a separation physical / exam ?

If yes, is there anything on it that relates to mental health ?

jmho - carlie

So what do you all think I should do from this point.

[carlie]

Well I am not sure why I have not had any replies yet. I guess I need to ask certain questions.

Anyone providing help here does so on a voluntary basis. You only opened this topic 4 hours ago.

We unfortunately do not have a team of people just sitting around waiting for questions.

Members come on here and provide help when and how they feel able, at their discretion.

This is not meant to be offensive to you, as I said this is all on a voluntary basis that they give

of their time and knowledge.

What are my chances of getting some type of disability.

There is a possibility - if you can provide the evidence needed.

If disability is awarded what %

Absolutely no way to even guess anything other than if service connection will

even be granted. That is your first hurdle - getting an issue to be granted as service connected

comes first - above and beyond anything else at all.

An evaluation for percentage level of compensation is not even in the equation until the issue

is deemed by the vBA to be service connected.

How far back will it be awarded? 2014 or 1995

You posted, "But anyway I filed a claim for depression, HTN, and sleep disorder. back in March 31st 2014."

There is absolutely no way what so ever that IF your issues are granted to be service connected, the effective date

would be adjudicated back to 1995, as no claim for benefits had been submitted or of record.

Also, please clarify - did you submit your mental health condition/s as a claim for SC of PTSD or a Claim for depression

or a claim for both PTSD and Depression.

I ask because the criteria for SC of each is different.

jmho - carlie

[HankChinaski]

These are the types of bullshit claims that make it harder on everyone else. PTSD because other soldiers verbally xxxxxx with you in garrison?? Seriously? 

 

 

[Andyman73]

Keep in mind he didn't DX himself.  He was just stating what 2 different BH docs DXd him with. 

Don't forget that long term exposure to mental stress can lead to strange things, such as "Stockholm syndrome" where hostages begin to see things from the hostage taker's point of view and even take their side. 

[Buck52]

It should not matter how long you waited to get the the help you need, just keep going to treatment and get yourself better, you need all medical documentation to help you with your claim Mostly you need your stressors to help SC this and then you will be given a decision on what %  if you meet the VA criteria for the DSM5 PTSD.

 if your denied?  you can get new & material evidence and file NOD  an appeal your decision.

non- combat veteran can get PTSD  you just need to prove your case to the VA.

 

JMO

..........Buck

 

[USAF-Vet]

I am relieved to see this message. One of my Navy Veteran friends who is a nurse locally said they are starting to see a wave of Female Veterans about my age coming in with PTSD from years of abuse suffered in their duty sections by co-workers.

I have been diagnosed Anxiety/Panic disorder with depression. I have it noted in my service medical records as "adjustment disorder" and was referred for stress management in 89'. In addition, I have supporting statements from one of my former female supervisors who was also harassed.

There were 4 woman in a shop of 40 (Jet Engine Mechanics). Needless to say, the majority of our co-workers did not appreciate having us around so made our lives miserable no matter how hard we worked.

Two cross-trained, 1 separated and I was left holding the bag so was getting harassing phone calls at home as well during Gulf 1. We all filed a harassment complaint that wasn't taken seriously (prior to Tail hook) which is why I separated at the last minute even though my re-enlistment packet was completed.

I would have a panic attack sjust driving by the road that went to the engine shop after I separated until the base closed in 92' when we left. I was reluctant to admit I was a Veteran until 2 years ago when I started working for VHA and my fellow Veterans started pushing me to file my claim.

The people who abused us all those years ago don't have a clue how much damage they caused.

[Andyman73]

USAF-Vet,

I am glad you were finally able to 1) admit you are a Veteran, and 2) speak up and seek help.

I believe there are far more like missouriMedic than anyone in official capacity cares to admit. 

Personally, I only just began treatment for MH, and did not suffer any traumatic event or combat.  However due to a combination of stressors I developed sleep issues, and then turned to booze to help sleep.  And that just compounded the problems, heaped on top of physical pain from falling down a flight of stairs on day 5 of boot camp.

That fall happened in November of 1992. It was only this past Summer that I learned that there was MH help available for Veterans who didn't fall into "normal" categories for MH illnesses.  I always thought there was nothing for me,  but thank God for Hadit and the Vets on here.  They encouraged me to choose life.  I am more grateful than I could ever say, to the Veterans here.

So missouriMedic can and will find relief and assistance here, and so can/will you.

Semper Fi.

Andyman

[USAF-Vet]

Thanks Andy, it has not been an easy road.

My husband is a combat Veteran (Gulf 1 & 2, Pakistan) with PTSD.

Needless to say, we had to modify things we used to enjoy due to environmental factors that trigger both of us.

[Andyman73]

USAF-Vet,

It's tough to make any headway when you're stuck between a rock and a hard place. 

Is your husband in the system?  I don't want to assume, if so, can he provide you with any assistance/experience in navigating the never ending always changing maze that is the VA claims process?

The first step is already done, and that is the hardest one to take, asking for help.  Your second step was joining Hadit, and now you're already on your way down your own yellow brick road! You will eventually reach the "Emerald City"(aka success with your claims).  We, here, all have gone down that road.  Some of us are still going down it, for the umpteenth time, and it's still one foot in front of the other.

Semper Fi.

Andyman

[USAF-Vet]

Husband is retired (VA 50%) and we're both treated at AF medical facility.

Hubby is just now relenting about seeking treatment and getting a VA claim done for PTSD. Our DAV rep. is helping.

I've had treatment, have meds for attacks and meds to help me sleep because I'm always in pain so haven't slept well in years.

[Quibley]

Requirements or Test for VA Compensation for PTSD

So what are the requirements to qualify for VA compensation for PTSD? You must have medical evidence that diagnosis PTSD in accordance with the diagnostic criteria in DSM-IV. You must also have a link between your current symptoms and in-service stressor established by medical evidence. Lastly, you must have credible supporting evidence that the claimed stressor occurred. To win your claim for PTSD VA compensation you must have evidence that shows "it is at least as likely as not" that you meet all three requirements. I will now go to little more detailed into each of these requirements.

Step 1: Medical Diagnosis of PTSD

As I described earlier you must have a medical diagnosis of PTSD under the diagnosis criteria of DSM-IV. So if you have a diagnosis of PTSD in is a good idea to get a report from your doctorthat explains how he came to this conclusion under DSM-IV criteria. This step can often be complicated when the veteran is given a diagnosis for his mental condition of other than PTSD by another doctor. This is why it is important that the doctor who diagnoses the PTSD fully describes in a report why he feels this way and how it meets the criteria under DSM-IV.

Step 2: In-service stressor (traumatic event(s) while serving)

The veteran must also show evidence of a stressor in service. This means the stressful event that cause the PTSD must have occurred while he was in service. It is important to note that combat is not the only stressor that can occur in service and cause PTSD. Any traumatic event that satisfies the diagnostic criteria in DSM-IV is acceptable. However, I should note there are special rules and it is significantly easier to prove an in-service stressor if the veteran was in combat or a former prisoner of war. I should also note it does not have to be one stressor that caused the PTSD in service it can be multiple stressors and the veteran should note all of the stressors in his claim for VA compensation.  Many veterans may lose their PTSD claim due to a technicality so it is very important that a veteran complete VA form 21 -- 0781, statement in support of claim for service connection for post tramatic stress disorder. I have seen many decisions where the VA claims they did not receive this form and; therefore, it did not allow them to verify the veteran's stressor. Many veterans who have been denied for this reason tell me that they sent it in but this is why it is important to send everything into the VA certified mail so that you have proof that you have done so. The following is taken from one of these cases that was denied for this reason and explains what is required. "The US armed services research center for research of unit records (SASCRUR) has provided Department of Veterans Affairs with a booklet entitled, Guide for Preparation and Submission of Post Traumatic Stress Disorder Research Requests for guidance in requesting confirmation of alleged in-service stressful event(s) reported in conjunction with claims for service connection for post traumatic stress disorder. The US Armed Service Center for Research of Unit Records cannot conduct proper research to confirm these stressors without certain specific details to include names of any casualties known and Units to which assigned (down to the company level); dates of events (minimum month and year); unit veteran as assigned to when the claimed event or incident occurred (down to the company level); names of particular campaigns involved with at the time of the event or incident; and specific locations where the events where incidents occurred. You fail to provide any specific information capable of verifying any of the claimed events or incidents; therefore, your claim is denied for lack of a verifiable stressor

Non-combat stressor

If the veteran did not engage in combat then proving the stressor can be more difficult. The veteran must supply credible supporting evidence that the claimed in-service stressor occurred. In this case, the veterans statements by themselves are not enough to establish an in-service stressor. It is important that the veteran be specific as possible as to the stressful event or events that occurred including as much detail about individuals involved, dates, location and what the events were. The events can many times be corroborated by the veterans military service records but it can also come from other sources. It is always a good idea to get written statements from others in service who you served with who may have experienced the event or events or who you are in contact with shortly after the stressful event. This may even include letters or e-mails to home that the event occurred. It is a good idea to get as much supportive evidence as possible but remember the standard of proof is still "at least as likely as not."

Rape, Domestic Violence, Harassment, Physical or Sexual Assault

Another type of case which fits under the non-combat in-service stressor category but is treated a little differently is those who suffered from rape, physical assaults, domestic violence, robbery, mugging, stalking, and harassment. Although this type of claim is most commonly associated with female veterans it also occurs in large numbers to male veterans as well. Because of the nature of these crimes it can often be difficult to produce supporting evidence of this type of trauma. So even if your military records do not documenta personal assault you can still show the in-service stressor occurred. Some examples of evidence that can show the in-service stressor occurred in a PTSD claim for compensation are police records, records from mental health or rape crisis centers or other hospitals or physicians. It can also include statements from fellow veterans, family members and even clergy. What can be obtained from these sources that can help your claim is behavioral changes, a request fortransfer to another assignment, an indication that you were performance has declined, treatment for other psychiatric conditions following the alleged event such as depression, social behavioral changes and even substance-abuse. In other words if you can show by supportive evidence that after the assault occurred significant negative effects occurred in your life or you took steps to remove yourself from the situation you can prove your in-service stressor of assault.  The decision makers at the regional office frequently misapply these rules. 

Step 3: Link between current PTSD and in-service stressor

The last requirements to be found service-connected for PTSD and awarded your VA compensation is to show your currently diagnosed PTSD is linked to your in-service stressor by medical evidence. This is usually the easiest of the three steps to prove. One particular problem can occur at this step in the process, and that is if the veteran has also had a traumatic event after service. In this situation, it is extremely important that the doctor who diagnosed you with PTSD state at a minimum that it is "at least as likely as not" that the veterans current PTSD is a result of the traumatic event that occurred in service.

For the record, I have an award for disability compensation for non-combat PTSD.

 

 

Edited October 16, 2015 by Quibley
add some infor (see edit history)

[TALON II FE]

When someone has dealt with certain drug addictions, that muddles things somewhat.  The receptors get worn out from being saturated and quit working correctly inducing a depressed state.  Crack would do this.  The opioids they used to give out do this also.  It's not our place to minimize someone else's experiences, however.  I guess someone (this is a year old thread that the individual who started it hasn't come back to since 2014) could link drug induced depression as being secondary to the service experience but I don't see them admitting that service led to illegal drug addiction.  It is almost a backwards association.  It's like claiming that post-service life exacerbated your issues with your service, not the other way around.  Once you damage those receptors, you have mortgaged much of your future happiness (for the rest of your life) for a quick high.  The military did not hand you a crack pipe.  That being said, I hope the individual continued to seek help and makes the best of things. No one should ever be turned away from needed treatment, that is a travesty.  Personally, I don't have a lot of sympathy for self-induced conditions, but that is a flaw in me as much as anything else.

[Andyman73]

Husband is retired (VA 50%) and we're both treated at AF medical facility.

Hubby is just now relenting about seeking treatment and getting a VA claim done for PTSD. Our DAV rep. is helping.

I've had treatment, have meds for attacks and meds to help me sleep because I'm always in pain so haven't slept well in years.

Hmmm, 50%, huh?  I bet he was lowballed and probably should be much higher.  That is pretty much standard practice, either they deny or they lowball.  Maybe 1% gets the max of which they deserve.

Glad to hear that he is taking those first steps as well. 

I can't take anything stronger than OTC stuff, since I still have to work.  While on AD, and even after, I was prescribed narcotics for pain, and almost 100% of the time had to quit after a few days.  I wasn't able to sleep well, or tolerate the effects to my digestive tract.  And I can't wake up feeling like I'm in a fog and try to go to work, as well.  I do have something I can take when I know I can sleep in the next day...but those days are very few and far between.  My sleep is not quality sleep.  I've been DXd with OSA for 2 years now, and the CPAP is a huge help, but my sleep is still poor.

Semper  Fi.

Andyman

[USAF-Vet]

Yes Andy, low balled big time. Most of his friends are 80% or higher.

We're working on getting it fixed....takes time.

[Buck52]

Can a veteran use the presumption as to his stressor?  if there is no medical evidence or any records that the event never happen   because there were a lot of things that happen while I was in vietnam that went unreported...same as the Gulf wars OIF operation desert storm  ect,,,ect,,,

if a veteran can account or reflect back to the place and time a horrific event happen   then the VA should go with reasonable Doubt  reasonable doubt the event was likely to  as not did happen as the veteran states.while in the military.

 

jmo

 

......................Buck