Wasn't honest

[Shadowpr]

So after 5 years of appeals, I was finally sc for depression. I was rated at 30%. My issue is that I wasn't honest with the doctors or evaluator about suicidal thoughts. 

 

It was stupid, but I just don't trust them enough to have told them. I just found out though that having the thoughts would qualify for 70%. 

 

I looked through my mental health notes and saw at least one time the doctor did mention that I had them. 

 

My question is, should I appeal the decision again and start being honest or just start being honest and file for an increase in a few months? 

 

Thank you. 

[Lighthouse]

On 11/4/2020 at 2:26 PM, El Train said:

Damn Bro/Broham, I'm with you.  I've never admitted SI to any Dr's.  I couldn't do it.  Who wants to admit that.  It was easier for me to admit I wish I wasn't alive if I had a choice.  But no way I would admit a plan to offing myself (and I don't have one).  I got rated 100% PTSD/TBI without admitting I have SI.  Probably due to the TBI would be my guess.

It's not too late to file a NOD.  You have up to a year.  I filed NOD's for all my claims.  I went and got outside IME/IMO from Dr's I hired.  Then submitted that.  That triggered C&P's for all the conditions I requested to be reevaluated.  This got me proper ratings for most my claims.

In the Air Force, a visit to the Mental Health Unit voluntary or not, meant your job.  I tried to off myself after '91 and my squadron leadership knew it.  When they would ask, I just sucked it up and lied.  My wife and kids needed an accidental death to benefit.  We were always told to NEVER go to Mental Health because that was the end of your career.  When I applied for PTSD, I lied then too.  Why? I did not want to be ushered away to a ward and whatever happens after that.  Regardless, my examiner gave me 70.  The stigma when I was in was a fact of life.

[broncovet]

Yours is a great post, and it makes you sound sincere and human.  One of the worst people to lie to is yourself, "pretending" as if everything is hunkey dorey.  It sounds like you learned from your mistake.  It also sounds like you have a "documented" (medically) history of Suicidial Ideations, in your records.  You dont have to have SI each and every day!

.  Symptoms of depression, PTSD, are known to "wax and wane", that is, you have some days which are better than others.  We all have those. 

Its perfectly fine to tell your doctor, "I have SI today", or "I dont have SI today", and still be rated 70 percent or higher, but, as you pointed out you should be honest. 

    To fix that mistake, I suggest you make a "vow of honesty" in the future.  Yes, there is a cost for honesty.  Sometimes we have to do things we would rather not do, to keep our promises. 

But, I can tell you, fortunately, I learned that "lesson of honesty" perhaps earlier in life than you did, but that does not make me better than you.  I can also tell you that I never regretted telling the truth..even when it hurt. 

      YOU know your symptoms better than anyone.  Therefore, my advice is TWO fold:

1.  "If" you feel your symptoms include SI, then appeal.  

2.  However, "if" you can say you have never had suicidal thoughts, then be content with what is owed you, and apply for an increase, if/when your symptoms worsen. 

     Like yourself, I had/have SI, but I dont have mine every day. 

     VA regulations allow you to tell your VA doc your symptoms on your WORST day.  You dont have to tell them your symptoms TODAY.  Today you may have been to your kids birthday party and had a great time and feel great.  When the doc asks "how are you", I state something close to:  "Better today, Doc.  Last Thursday (give the day/date of your worst day) it was awful.  Then describe your worst day. 

     Vets make the mistake, when they go to a c and p exam of answering "Fine" to how are you.  Then you have to backpedal the whole exam.  Instead, this is your chance to describe your worst day, and you should tell what happened on your worst day. 

      Then, when you have told the truth, you needent worry about a future reduction.  You didnt tell the doc you had SI every day, you tell him you had them on your worst day. 

 

[El Train]

Damn Bro/Broham, I'm with you.  I've never admitted SI to any Dr's.  I couldn't do it.  Who wants to admit that.  It was easier for me to admit I wish I wasn't alive if I had a choice.  But no way I would admit a plan to offing myself (and I don't have one).  I got rated 100% PTSD/TBI without admitting I have SI.  Probably due to the TBI would be my guess.

It's not too late to file a NOD.  You have up to a year.  I filed NOD's for all my claims.  I went and got outside IME/IMO from Dr's I hired.  Then submitted that.  That triggered C&P's for all the conditions I requested to be reevaluated.  This got me proper ratings for most my claims.

[Foxhound6]

Good topic. I also believe many vets just have a general "taboo" feeling about admitting SI. I break them down into two categories as I have been thru both types... The first is the obvious, the thought and planning type of thoughts. The other is the type where its not a feeling of you wanting to do harm to yourself but rather you're fine if you just weren't around anymore. Both are forms of SI. Just because you don't sit there and dwell and plan doesn't mean you don't have those ideations.

Self-awareness is the likely the best help you can give yourself. The honesty follows.

Edited November 5, 2020 by Foxhound6

[USMC_VET]

On 11/3/2020 at 4:09 PM, Shadowpr said:

So after 5 years of appeals, I was finally sc for depression. I was rated at 30%. My issue is that I wasn't honest with the doctors or evaluator about suicidal thoughts. 

 

It was stupid, but I just don't trust them enough to have told them. I just found out though that having the thoughts would qualify for 70%. 

 

I looked through my mental health notes and saw at least one time the doctor did mention that I had them. 

 

My question is, should I appeal the decision again and start being honest or just start being honest and file for an increase in a few months? 

 

Thank you. 

 

Something similiar happened to me. I went in to a MH C&P and I wasnt honest, worse than yours, not only did i not mention everything that would have supported my increase i just said i was fine, everythings good, familys good, works good, etc etc.  Well i got home and wrote a letter saying that i wasnt honest and open with the Dr. and listed out my symptoms.  Weeks go by, a month and i get a letter stating that they were going to reduce my PTSD form 50%-30% .  I ended up having to go get a IMO from a pysch to get the reduction dropped, etc.

My advice would be to appeal, write out a letter stating what happened and that you were too anxious to be fully honest, etc. Request a new C&P and also, if you can afford it, get a IMO from a Pscyh (I have used Dr. Elaine Trippi, she has great bonafides $500 a exam).  Her IMO should trigger them to get a new C&P anyways, since her bonafides are very likely WAY better than the VA shrink.  I would then write out all your symptoms on paper and use that to make sure you DONT forget anything on this next go around.

[USMC_VET]

18 hours ago, Lighthouse said:

In the Air Force, a visit to the Mental Health Unit voluntary or not, meant your job.  I tried to off myself after '91 and my squadron leadership knew it.  When they would ask, I just sucked it up and lied.  My wife and kids needed an accidental death to benefit.  We were always told to NEVER go to Mental Health because that was the end of your career.  When I applied for PTSD, I lied then too.  Why? I did not want to be ushered away to a ward and whatever happens after that.  Regardless, my examiner gave me 70.  The stigma when I was in was a fact of life.

Absolutely. In the Corps, if you got sent to the wizard you were done in many cases.  

I think one of the major hurdles for vets is they are worried they will..

1) lose their guns

2) have to get a va/friend to manage their money

3) get carted off to the nut house

The reason i lied on my C&P and almost got reduced was because i showed up to the MH wing, they took me through a badge only door into the actually MH ward, in a barely lit hallway to a dark room with a computer and a camera for the remote C&P (so glad they will let us just do this at home now). I freaked out. i thought if i said the wrong thing i wasnt getting back out of that hospital.