Jump to content

Ask Your VA   Claims Questions | Read Current Posts 
Read VA Disability Claims Articles
 Search | View All Forums | Donate | Blogs | New Users | Rules 

  • homepage-banner-2024.png

  • donate-be-a-hero.png

  • 0

Va Conclusion Language For Ptsd Claims

Rate this question


Mil T

Question

Veteran received letter of decision per a notice of disagreement filed 01-19-10 for denied PTSD. Includes Statement of Case. De Novo review was completed 03-28-12.

Veteran submitted 2 Stressor incident Letters pertaining to enemy fire. Also helped load and witnessed dead American bodies while aboard helicoptor. while medivac helicoptor crew chief took direct fire from small arms. Other stressful incident was, while on bunker duty on initial Tet of 1968 attack in Cu Chi received opening volly of direct mortor attack on his bunker location. Very clear concise testimony naming dates, times other individuals involved, units assigned, etc.

Veteran has been involved with PTSD counseling since 2009. Diagnosed PTSD due to combat by several VA mental health doctors. Has attended 27 day inpatient EBTPU (Evaluation and Brief Treatment for PTSD Unit) program at Tucson VA Med Cntr in Oct 2011. He was admitted for 5 day inpatient for mental stress related to PTSD at Phoenix Med Cntr in 2010. He has been attending individual and group counceling at Prescott Med cntr, Mental Health Dept. for last 2 years. He is in group counceling in Payson, Az. administered by Mesa Az. Vet Cntr for the past 5 yrs. All of the records of each of these facilities and doctors acknowledge his PTSD as Combat Related in writing. His DD214 show Air Medals as part of the Vietnam service awards. His MOS was 67U20 MTR HEL Mech. Actual duty was NCOIS, Crew Chief on C47 Chinook Helicopter.

He is service connected 30% for Migrane headaches that started while he was in service and in Vietnam. The claim for PTSD has been on the books since April 2008. Denied March 2009 for lack of evidence. June 4 2009 submitted NOD. The VA said that he retracted request for appeal (which Vet says he never did) So they say he resubmitted January 2010.

The Veteran has never been called in for C&P exam for PTSD ever.

Here is the final conclusion statement of Statement of Claim:

In the absence of objective evidence showing your claimed post traumatic stress disorder was treated during your active military service or objective evidence showing a relationship to your active military service, nor is there evidence to corroborate a military-related stressful event actually occurred, service connection cannot be granted.

Am I missing something here?

NO ONE seeked help while in service for PTSD. It didn't exist then. And if somone complained about it, they were shoved out the door and sent back to the field or back to where ever you were assigned.

I have looked at the 38 regs that accompany the SOC.

I believe they failed in seveal areas. The most being;

38USC3.159 Assistance in developing claim.

(4) Providing medical examination or obtaining medical opinions.

3.304(d) Direct service connection: Wartime and peacetime (Combat)

3.304(f) 1. Direct service connection: Wartime and peacetime; Post Traumatic Stress Disorder.

Both of these state, ' The Veteran's lay testimony alone may establish the occurrence of the claimed in-service stressor'.

3.304(f) 3. Veterans fear of hostile military or terrorist activity, -- for purposes of this paragraph, "fear of hostile miltiary or terrorist activity means that a veteran experienced, witnessed or was confronted with an event or circumstance that involved actual or threatened death or serious injury or a threat to the physical intergrity of the veteran or others, such as from an actual or potential improvised explosive device; vehicle embedded explosive device; incoming artillery, rocket or mortar fire; grenade; small arms fire. including suspected sniper fire, or attack upon friendly military aricraft, and the veterans' response to the event or circumstance involved a psychological or psycho-physiological state of fear, helplessness or horror.

In all of these it is clearly stated; " that the Veterans lay testimony alone may establish the occurrence of the claimed in-service stressor."

So why is do they say OBJECTIVE evidence and if they wanted that then they had an obligation to help get the day journals of the incidents. He gave them enough information to do that. And if they couldn't get it then they should not be writing that it needed to be presented by the Veteran.

I just don't understand why the VA keeps going back on the idea that what is in or is NOT in your military file is enough to deny claims. PTSD wasn't even a diagnosis yet from Vietnam and yet these decision makers keep refering to it that there was no diagnosis of it in medical records.

I'm trying to figure out what the next step is. If it goes to the BVA this Vet, who is very ill may not ever see anything from his efforts. My thoughts are to wrtie a letter back to the RO with a reconsideration based on the information and more that I wrote here.

Carlie, Berta, Anyone with helpful suggestions will be appreciated.

Mil T

We Were Young

We Were Soldiers

We Are Brothers Forever

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Answers 18
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters For This Question

Recommended Posts

The claim was before that section was a part of the regulation. but 2 still works. His statements are their is Dx is there. The RO failed they had to take is statements and they had to go to the Army archives to prove or disprove it. duty to assist.

James A. Bunker

Executive Director

National Gulf War Resource Center

Phone: 785-925-9887

Email: Do not post your email address.

Join us on Facebook

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • HadIt.com Elder

Your VA claim denial sounds like Commander Bob's. You have plenty there for a PTSD claim. Bob got his leg blown off in Nam and the VA says he never complained about PTSD while in Vietnam so they denied it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

“Very clear concise testimony naming dates, times other individuals involved, units assigned, etc.”

Did he attempt to get buddy statements from the other individuals involved?

They would have to be in the same unit he was, and corrobortate the events as to date, time and place in an eye witness account that puts them AND the veteran at the scene.

They should give contact info along with the buddy statement so VA can reach them, if needed.

Has any attempt been made by the veteran to contact JSRRC himself for verification?

“The Veteran has never been called in for C&P exam for PTSD ever. “

VERY Unusual.

Are you able to scan and attach here the entire denial letters as to the Evidence list and the complete Reasons and Bases the VA stated?

“So why is do they say OBJECTIVE evidence and if they wanted that then they had an obligation to help get the day journals of the incidents. He gave them enough information to do that. And if they couldn't get it then they should not be writing that it needed to be presented by the Veteran. “

I have a different take on this as to the VA's obligation here– he should get the day journals or Morning reports himself.

Did the VA run his stressor through JSRRC?

If they did and said Joint Service could not verify it, then the vet should contact JSRRC himself.

I have posted info here many times for JSRRC. It is available under a search.

" that the Veterans lay testimony alone may establish the occurrence of the claimed in-service stressor."

The keyword there is “may”.

I have friend who I could not convince to file for PTSD.He has 2 PHs.

He didnt want to file because he didnt want to talk about his stressors.

All he had to do was briefly describe the events that led up to the 2 gun shot wounds. A PH from a GSW IS a stressor.Finally he filed and got awarded 50% SC for PTSD.He already had 40% for the main GSW.

My husband's lay testimony for one of his stressors was accepted by VA the same day he filed for PTSD. The Director of the VA verified the stressor right away as he had first hand knowledge himself of the same incident in Vietnam that made National News here in the USA when it occurred.

If a vet with a CAR or CIB on his DD214 gives lay testimony of a stressor, the VA is sure to accept the testimony and concede it.

In this veteran's case ,it appears that the VA will need proof it occurred.EVen with multile stressors, the VA only needs to verify one of them.

Maybe the VA made errors in this denial.

Was the VCAA letter sufficient to tell his what the VA needed?If not that is a strong point to raise on appeal.

It is impossible to know without seeing the actual decision if a reconsideration or a NOD should be filed.

Reconsideration requests can get tricky and it is always best to file a NOD along with the request or way beore the NOD deadline runs out.

The VA may appear to be working on the Recon request-they did this to me-I received responses from them on my rebuttals for almost the entire NOD time frame.In none of their responses did they mention ANY of my legal evidence.

I had one week left and filed a NOD.It had become obvious to me that their responses (some were Ludicrous) were attempts to piss away my one year NOD appeal time frame.

The request was filed on a denial of a CUE claim I filed in 2004.

The CUE was awarded this past January by the Nehmer division.They read the legal evidence I had sent.

I dont see any point here so far in filing for reconsideration but the decision, if we could read it, would reveal more.

Cover all personal identifying stuff in the decision if you can scan and attach it here.

Edited by Berta

GRADUATE ! Nov 2nd 2007 American Military University !

When thousands of Americans faced annihilation in the 1800s Chief

Osceola's response to his people, the Seminoles, was

simply "They(the US Army)have guns, but so do we."

Sameo to us -They (VA) have 38 CFR ,38 USC, and M21-1- but so do we.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

BTW the 25th Infantry Division was attacked at Cu Chi at 1 AM on May 9,1968 (during Tet) and I assume this was his unit

He might want to try their web site to find a buddy.

http://www.25thida.com/

They have membership roster and reunion info there as well as history of the 25th Inf. Div in Vietnam.

There should also be some info there as to any support units to the 25thID in Vietnam.

GRADUATE ! Nov 2nd 2007 American Military University !

When thousands of Americans faced annihilation in the 1800s Chief

Osceola's response to his people, the Seminoles, was

simply "They(the US Army)have guns, but so do we."

Sameo to us -They (VA) have 38 CFR ,38 USC, and M21-1- but so do we.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Did he attempt to get buddy statements from the other individuals involved?

They would have to be in the same unit he was, and corrobortate the events as to date, time and place in an eye witness account that puts them AND the veteran at the scene.

Has any attempt been made by the veteran to contact JSRRC himself for verification?

I have a different take on this as to the VA's obligation here– he should get the day journals or Morning reports himself.

Did the VA run his stressor through JSRRC?

If they did and said Joint Service could not verify it, then the vet should contact JSRRC himself.

Cover all personal identifying stuff in the decision if you can scan and attach it here.

I sure do agree with the Berta on the bolded post above.

Ultimately - it's up to all claimants to initiate, follow-up and submit everything they can, to get their claim issues granted.

Doing all the leg work for VBA can help claimants in the long run.

Laying everything out for them like playing the dot to dot game - sure can help.

I believe that most times, you have to shower the VBA with all the evidence you can grab ahold

of to support your issues.

And yes, the VBA sure does have the DTA regs that they are SUPPOSED to go by,

but personally I wouldn't count on the DTA regs to do everything that has to be done, to support a grant of my issues.

The DTA regs have limitations and not everything we think they might be applicable to - - actually is.

I surely feel there is enough for a C&P exam.

JMHO

Carlie passed away in November 2015 she is missed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Guidelines and Terms of Use