Dav

[vet2010]

I know this is not the right FORUM however I need to know. I am thinking of joining the DAV and I want to know the pros and cons of this organization before I become a member.

vet2010

[Berta]

In my opinion, the DAV is a wonderful organization and I am a Financial donor to them.

It is their Service Office program that has problems.

Some DAV reps are fabulous and some suck....that is no different than any vet org out there. They still have a good appeal success rate at the BVA but I think the AL had a higher rate last year...forget...it is all in the BVA annual CHairman's report I posted here when it came out this past Feb.

If all a vet rep does for you is keep copies in their POA file on you ,of all you submit to the VA, that in the long run is a good reason to have a vet rep or NSO.

[Philip Rogers]

I'm glad that's only your opinion PR. In VA's pocket? Anything to back that up, or again is that your opinion?

The DAV has always assisted veterans when they need help. They provide a quarterly news letter that has pending legislation concerning veterans. That way, this information can be reviewed and if the veteran feels a need to contact their elected representatives, they have an option.. Many DAV Chapters have a benevolence fund. We grow this fund by having 2-3 fundraising programs a year. The money raised goes back to those veterans in the area that the money was raised. Our Chapter granted over $10,000.00 last year. This money went to veterans that needed help with food, clothing, utility bills, rent and in one case, the chapter purchased a WWII veteran 4 tires for his vehicle. I could go on and on, but if your looking for an veterans organization that gives back to it's veterans, the DAV would be a wise choice.

Guess we'll have to agree to disagree. Yes it's "my opinion," which we are both entitled to have. You can think me an idiot and in our system you are entitled to that opinion. You can even post that and speak it, in public, without fear of recourse. I can also.

I'm a life member of the VVA, DAV and VFW. I joined the DAV way early, when I won my first claim, before I learned more about them. As for my statement that they are basically in the VA's pocket, I standby my opinion. Their whole transportation program is, to me, a farce. It gives them wonderful PR and that's all. Last I knew the training for most VSO's follows a training course written & sponsored by the DAV and that course intentially teaches misinformation, so that veterans will lose or be told they don't have a chance. I first dealt w/the DAV back in 1989. The VSO had no idea what 38 CFR or 38 USC was, even tho, he had an old copy of 38 CFR, in his office library.

Almost all Vet Orgs have funds to help needy vets. My VVA chapter averages $10k-20k in donations to needy vets & their widows, in addition to actually doing physical work, by the members, on their property/homes, if needed. I commend them all for what the Orgs do, in that respect. I believe those who have bars, sell scratch tickets, do a great disservice to vets. They help them stay alcoholics, by selling them low cost drinks. They help them spend their hard earned money/benefits and keep them in that position. I can't count how many I've seen spend their benefit checks there on the first of the month. Anyway you get my point.

The only membership I value, these days, is my VVA membership and they are but a small Org. I still remember how the others "treated us," when we came home from VN!!!! We need a single organization but that'll never happen. It's better for the VA to keep us divided. Again, just my opinion!

pr

[manning01]

Just my 2 cents worth also they can be really terrible on the VSO side. I had them in Wilkes Barre PA and he was grumpy, never wanted to help and was basically useless he did nothing for me and my claim. Once I moved to AZ I contacted the DAV here and they took three weeks to call back. Once she did without knowing me or my claim she laid down the law. That law seemed to side with the VA. She said don't send in IRIS inquires, check your ebennies only, we will have control of your claim so don't submit one paper to the VA without it going through us and don't you even think of asking a congress critter for help or we will dump you fast. That was on my voicemail of all things. Seems to me way to bossy/control and has to much VA influence in what they do for us. So I tried to call back and same thing almost three weeks latter she finally returned my call. So after seeing other co workers having the same issues not calling back, not looking into their claims when they ask and basically do as we say I dumped them and went with Amvets. I have been happy ever since my AV VSO is great and even repsonds to a email within hours. As a vet himself he works hard to get your claim done. He even attends these meetings they have with management at the VARO and VAMC and voices our concerns. Maybe the other side of the DAV does a lot of good but in Wilkes Barre PA and Phoenix AZ the VSO side really stinks.

Edited February 10, 2013 by manning01

[Capt.]

Hello All,

I am not really wanting to get into a difficult argument over Veteran Service Organizations. I DO want to give my personal experience with the DAV and how it applied to me during the early part of my claim(s). I will also point out some problems and things that have come up with DAV and other VSOs that perhaps do not have the best interest of the Veteran at heart in the long run and some important facts that have not yet been brought up in this post.

First , I would look at the grade received from the report that investigated and gave GRADES for the amount of money taken in or budgeted or both that spent it wisely or unwisely on the Veterans causes. I have also included the ABC news report to show more of the problems of waste not just with DAV but other organizations. But it clearly shows some problems.

http://www.military-money-matters.com/charities-ratings.html#axzz2KXvRLBxu

http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=3843367&affil=knxv

Once I finally got thru with my testing and medical exams and doctors opinions and lengthy research , I filed my claim with the VA ,,,,and the Disabled American Vets was my POA. I became sick in 1997 but did not start into the VA treatment or the VHA until 2001 or so and did not get all my testing and opinions until about 2003-2005.

I used a supervisor with DAV in another city ,,,,and he was excellant at knowing what he was doing and helpful during the initial year of filing .

I then used our local Vet Center but was extremely disappointed in the way the representation went and followups.

I would like to point out that the DAV was not allowed to keep any records I gave them to file or followup with and the number of veterans they were trying to help with claims issues was appaling and LONG WAIT TIMES. Sometime it took 3-4 hours just to see someone. Any record they turned in concerning my claims had to be DESTROYED .....

The DAV could never remember my claim or what stage I was at , nor was I able to properly continue the claim and it got so far out of reach and so mistake laden that I knew I was going to be in trouble. I must point out that the VSOs there could not possibly remember each Veterans claim. It just was physically impossible due to the huge numbers of Veterans they were trying to help.

After an SVR show with Mr. Lou James , VSO with the Vietnam Veterans of America, and I was a call in , he asked me to contact him after the show. After the show I called him at his number and after much discussion of my claim and the EVIDENCE and MEDICAL REPORTS and TEST he asked to represent me and change my POA from DAV to VVA. That show is probably still archived here.

Next he came to my house and spent all weekend with me going over the claim and correcting many , many mistakes , and I believe this was in perhaps 2007 or 2008. He knew the regulations and procedures very , very well and got my claim at least back on track after the major derailment of the DAV. He was awesome and we fast became very close friends over the years.

I was his last Veteran that he represented and because of his own sickness , he advised me to try and get a lawyer because of the new changes in the POA law that allowed Veterans to hire a Lawyer after initial decisions from June 21, 2007 to present.

I followed his advise and still have a lawyer.

So , I would say that in my instance and personal use of DAV , I had a very good rep initially but he could not continue the claim and then my next set of DAV reps were very shakey and their process was detrimental to my claim. Mainly because of being overworked.

I believe that every Veteran Service Organization has good Veteran Service Officers and bad ones. And it is hard to find a good one . They are usually overworked and in great demand. You have already read some of the post to your question and seen that some are just plain arraogant and others are fine people trying to really help.

I would view the reports I furnished in the links to find out the grades and use that to help you make your decision. You are wise to seek advice now because when I was in your shoes and early in my study and research and filing of my claim , I did not realize the process that the VA had and the 38 CFRs. , BVA decisions , or the M21 schedulars.

It is important to first grasp that this VA Process is extremly complex and has no real simplicity to it and requires much SELF TRAINING and SELF RESEARCH. Choosing organizations to join , should not be based on your claim or service to your country but more of a personal nature.

VERY IMPORTANT TO NOT forget that the Disabled American Veterans were TOTALLY and STILL are against a Veteran using a lawyer to represent them. WHAT!!!!!!

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2010/03/17/attorneys-fight-for-veterans-against-va-and-vsos/

The main reason they did not want the law change on June 21, 2007 is that this keeps the Veteran in THEIR system, under THEIR control and its all about the numbers and money from Congress and of course VA budgets to them.

Now , if you can understand that the importance of that change allowing legal representation,(LAWYER) in our POA and the law , you can see that a Veteran now has more of a chance of winning than with ANY service organization and will , without any doubt , knock off alot of the stalling and waiting for decisions from Regional Offices or from BVA.

You having a good VA lawyer can stop the famous BVA and RO tactic of sending your claim to the INFAMOUS "blackhole" we know as the Appeals Management Center......or simply AMC. Our members know all too well of this stalling tactic the VA uses.

Having a lawyer also means that the playing field is EVEN when in the appeals/nod phase ,,,because the Veterans Affairs Regional Offices have their team of Justice Department lawyers at their use. And I think noone would disagree that you choosing a Veteran Service Organization to rep you means you have just that ,,,,,,,no representation that is trained in VA LAW during the early part of a claim. What it means is simply , you are going up against their Lawyer who knows the law ,,,,and its an UNFAIR fight. Oh yes ,,,AFTER the very lengthy process you might get one of the Veterans Service Organization Lawyers to represent you , but at a cost of alot of TIME wasted and only at the end of process involving the Court system.

Its the old story of "never bring a knife to a gunfight".

I have been fighting with the VA for over 6 years and have won partially the claims at stake. It took a lawyer and not a VSO to get there in that amount of time. But it did take a VSO to try to get it back on track during the initial decision phase.

With this being said , I would like to point out that we have some very fine VSOs at Hadit and unfortunately these folks are and have been spread too thin because of SHEER NUMBERS of Veterans that they are trying to take care of.

I would also like for you to look at the opinions of the other posters to this topic and see that they vary because of the good or bad help they received from VSOs that they used.

This topic , I feel is very important. If you look at the majority of the post on Hadit and realize that it almost always involves the BACKLOG and the waiting game for a favorable decision. This is what every Veteran is trying to shorten.

You are your best advocate and I will say on the record that if it had not been for me finding HADIT.COM and getting the right opinions and learning from the advice and studing the laws and VA process , I would not be at the stage of the VA process that I am at now. I will be eternally thankful for all of the fine folks here at Hadit and for the friendships I have made and knowledge learned from them. This becomes a family issue to most of us.

I hope this will help you to see some of the issues that have gone on for a long time with the VSOs overall. The links I posted should be viewed to properly see the larger picture and where some of the VSOs stand with trying to win your claims or loose it or prolong it. In every aspect whether you choose to have DAV or any service organization or even a lawyer to represent you , will require the Veteran to dig in and take the philosophy of NEVER GIVE UP. God Bless, C.C.

Edited February 11, 2013 by Capt.Contaminate

[relpats]

vet2010,you want to know the pros & cons. I think you have and will read more cons than pros.

Well, how do ya top what Phillip Rogers and Captain Contaminate reported. That was as good as it gets and a true reflection of the D A V Organization that I have come to know.

Now, I report DAV has failed me, also!!! I was as unaware of this whole VA quagmire process as PR & CC were and paid the DAV lifetime dues in hopes that they would help me navigate the turbulent VA claims process; they have not. The DAV VSO's here can rarely be reached by phone, not at all by email and only send an occassional standard form letter saying they forwarded my info to VA.

I receive no guidance, get no advice and have no strategy meetings concerning my claims. The last time I called, the receptionist told me that they couldn't access my data because I had not appointed them as my VSO and that the VA system reflected that I had no VSO even tough I had signed a POA with DAV in thier office a year prior and, they had been sending me the ocassional rubber stamp letters that they forwarded my correspondence to VA. I sent a followup letter and they responded by sending my letter back with a POA form and did not even have the common courtsey to enclude a cover or explanation letter, WOW!

I think CC has the best advice. Hire an attourney right upfront and don't waste anymore time or money with VSO's. Filing a claim with the VA is essentially a legal battle and legal battles require legal representation. After reading your post, the responses and reflecting on my own experience I will start my search for an attourney to help me with my claim. We can't wait while our claim hangs in limbo forever as we deteiorate and die thinking we signed up with a VSO that's going to help us when they are not.

Wish I had found Hadit in the beginning and read this post; I think things would have turned out a lot different.

PS Thanks to both PR & CC for your service and comments (God Speed).

Edited February 11, 2013 by relpats

[john999]

I agree with stated goals of most of the VSO's, but the way they attempt to implement them is poor. Congress critters don't respect them. They respect and fearfully cringe before the NRA, but blow off the VSO's. As soon as I was able to hire a lawyer for my CUE claim that is what I did since I did not for a moment think a local VSO would be able to handle it. If you have a simple claim you can do it yourself, and if you have a complicated claim you need a lawyer. Where do VSO's fit into this? If they could just represent us in Congress that is what they are good for and not doing claims. They BS vets into thinking they will get better representation in they join. This is not true.